The whole Iran nuclear debate

[clv101]

Because Iran is in the news, therefore its discussed.

A very good point - and it begs the question of why some things make it into the news and others don't.

Media Lens made a great point about this 10 years ago:

Permitted emission lines in the media spectrum

On the one hand, the Guardian, like the rest of the corporate media, consistently, over many years, provides massive coverage of the crimes of 'enemies': Nazi Germany, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, Iraq under Saddam (in the 1990s), Serbia under Milosevic. On the other hand, these same media have provided minimal coverage of crimes for which we bear some or all responsibility: Chile under Pinochet, Guatemala under Armas, Indonesia under Suharto, Iran under the Shah, Iraq under Saddam (in the 1980s), Afghanistan now, Turkey now, Colombia now, etc.

Individual "shameful" articles aside, this basic pattern reveals that the 'liberal' Guardian, like the corporate mainstream generally, functions as a de facto propaganda system promoting and protecting state-corporate interests. This is no academic issue; the corporate propaganda system is a vital component allowing the mass slaughter of innocents in the Third World to proceed all but unseen and unknown in the West. In recent weeks the U.K. mass media has, quite simply, and with staggering brutality, turned its back on the suffering of millions of starving and bombed people in Afghanistan.

You can emit 'journalism' at permitted places in the media spectrum.

That's a whole lot of stuff being left unsaid in between....

 

[ilcp]

Pakistan is known for playing on both sides terror and anti-terror. They are one of the worst if not the worst place for terrorist activity.

The only reason they allow the US to bomb and attack terrorism in their country is because the US pay the government billions to do so. What good has that done to them? They are on the verge of a civil war because their government keeps taking US money and innocent civilians die in the process.

all this bombing/terrorism happend right after 9/11, before that pakistan didnt have many incidents.. so thank you America,

 

[Calabi]

A very good point - and it begs the question of why some things make it into the news and others don't.

Media Lens made a great point about this 10 years ago:

Permitted emission lines in the media spectrum

All that stuff is very strange. The selective history and the demonisation of Iran. I'm sure it is a very bad place, and if given nuclear weapons they would immediately try to take over the world. But we dont know that, for all we know, all this could be setting them off.

We do know they dont have nuclear weapons now. It seems you can do anything if you imagine you are under threat. "He's looking at me funny, I'm sure he means to kill me, I better torture the truth out of him then kill him first".

I'm surprised we survived Russia with their nuclear weapons and all the things that have happened over there.

If they attack then everyone retaliates, if they start building a nuclear bomb factory, and turn out a hundred bombs(five for defence should be adequate), then thats the point to worry. But before then we have nothing to fear

 

[ubersonic]

At the end of the day the is no evidence to suggest that Iran has any plans to create nuclear weapons, in fact it could be argued that the fact that the USA or its allies have not attempted to prove it is proof that Iran has no aims for nuclear weapons and the west is fully aware of that.

No one should have nukes. But I find it highly hypocritical of the west to sanction Iran over it developing its nuclear tech. It's not even proven that they are indeed making a bomb.

Propaganda aside this is what it boils down too, the US are using Irans civil nuclear program as an excuse to beat the wardrum...

No they wouldn't, don't believe the crap about wiping Israel off the map it's been proven to be a deliberate misquote.

Thats what happens when FOX news translate things

Oh and depending on who is leader can make a difference too . . . .

That quote you linked is pure garbage written to sell books or whatever, France gave us those codes not because of Thatcher but because under EU law they were obliged to help us and not help Argentina, hence why they sent us over some pilots and Mirage fighters like the ones Argentina used so the RAF could train against them.

 

[KautoStar]

Didn't Iran make great strides in cooperating with the west, before Bush came to power and immediately set about destroying the improving relations. As well poking them with the huge sanction stick.

I'm pretty sure Colin Powell resigned over this foreign policy with Iran?

 

[mmj_uk]

Nobody is stupid enough to use nuclear weapons, why do you all think North Korea haven't? if Iran want nukes it's to prevent an increasingly likely invasion by the west.

Watch the video below, can you blame them for wanting the nuclear deterrent?

 

[clv101]

... if Iran want nukes it's to prevent an increasingly likely invasion by the west.

Indeed. The West is the biggest threat to peace in the region, both directly and indirectly though addiction to oil. If we mitigated our oil demand, we could step back from the whole region.

 

[e36Adz]

There is nothing that Iran can do to avoid conflict, absolutely nothing, the US and Israel already have their plans ready. It is the same with Pakistan, hence why both have been demonised in the Western media for quite a long time now. They will continue to prod them hoping for a reaction which if they eventually get, they can turn around and say look we told you they were dangerous, and it gives them the excuse they want so as to not look like the aggressors. Even if they get no reaction, they will lie just as they have done before and act anyway, or even worse they will kick start things by carrying out a false flag attack and then pin the blame on certain groups. Tried and tested methods. It is so blatantly obvious though, anyone with an ounce of common sense can see it coming from a mile off.

The only ones who can possibly condone this sort of behaviour are those who believe they are superior. We hear comments on here quite regularly like 'nuke them all', and it's plain to see the mentality of many people is the same as their forefathers who also felt they were superior, who had this obsession with expanding and taking control of everything and excuse me, 'civilising' the natives. They feel they can dictate who is and isn't allowed nuclear weapons. The exact same mentality and arrogance exists today in some people.

It is time for people to unite against these tyrants and bandits, who have given themselves supreme authority to do as they damn well please.

As I have said many times on here, it is all to protect the state of Israel. I think this year we will see the American military really stretched to its limit, and when Israel does launch it's attack, it will sky rocket the price of oil and send the dollar crashing. Marshal law may well be coming to America, but only Israel will emerge unscathed.

 

[[TW]Fox]

There is nothing that Iran can do to avoid conflict, absolutely nothing, the US and Israel already have their plans ready. It is the same with Pakistan, hence why both have been demonised in the Western media for quite a long time now.

Rubbish.

I am confident we will not see an American military strike on Iran unless Iran do something deliberately provocative above and beyond the nuclear issue.

The US isn't stupid. It knows the consequences of military action in Iran would be huge and far reaching on a scale not seen for a very long time. They are desperate to avoid this, which is why the whole thing has been dragging on for years and years and years and years. The huge surge in oil price alone will cripple the US economically for a start. Look what happened to the world economy conviently around the same time oil hit $150...

And as for the Pakistan thing, just lol.

 

[ubersonic]

The US isn't stupid. It knows the consequences of military action in Iran would be huge and far reaching on a scale not seen for a very long time.

Indeed, Russia would veto any UN involvement as they have heavily vested interest in Iran. It is however worrying that its our government (and the US) doing all this warmongering while Iran are just trying to get along with things. The must be a reason our gov and the US are making up this nuclear stuff and trying to vilify Iran.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Indeed, Russia would veto any UN involvement as they have heavily vested interest in Iran. It is however worrying that its our government (and the US) doing all this warmongering while Iran are just trying to get along with things. The must be a reason our gov and the US are making up this nuclear stuff and trying to vilify Iran.

I don't think they are 'making up' 'this nuclear stuff'. It's come from an IEA report, not the US government.

Do I think the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons? Yes.
Do I think this is bad? Absolutely
Do I think this violates the international law they are bound by as signatories of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty, and therefore cannot be suprised they incur sanctions? Yes.
Do I think military action is justified or even inevitable? No.

I think far more of this than any of you give it credit is about internal politics and internal power struggles? Nothing unites people behind a government more than perceived threat from external influences. Nothing. Iran's leaders are terrified of the 'Arab Spring' especially after the results of the last elections there!

There is something Iran can do. If its that confident it isn't developing nuclear weapons, then re-enter talks and allow impartial IEA inspections to prove this.

In before the 'OMG THAT WONT STOP AMERICA'.

 

[ubersonic]

There is something Iran can do. If its that confident it isn't developing nuclear weapons, then re-enter talks and allow impartial IEA inspections to prove this.

Why should they though? their not the ones acting like children, did the USA/UK/USSR/China/France/etc allow inspectors to follow every step of the development of their nuclear power programs.

There is something even easier/better the USA could do, Obama could go on TV and offer Iran the opportunity to let US construction companies tender for the contract to build a power station in Iran. That would have a number of positive effects:

1: Instead of starting at the Chernobyl level Iran gets a state of the art power station which is safer and more efficient than anything they could build in at least the next decade.
2: The USA economy benefits from the work/money
3: Relations between USA/Iran improve
4: The world sleeps safer knowing that Iran has a "clean" reactor that they can't use to make weapons.

If this option is so obvious to me it will be obvious to every politician, the reason they haven't offered it though (despite the fact an Iranian refusal would strengthen their nuclear weapons propaganda) is because they know Iran would accept, just like Iraq did when France offered them the same deal.

For reference the Iraq reactor was destroyed and a French contractor and numerous Iraqis killed when the Israeli air force launched an unprovoked/unsanctioned surprise airstrike on the complex fo not reason (their justification was Iraq could use the reactor to make weapons, something they knew to be untrue).

And that lady's and gentlemen is where the crux of this situation lies, Israel want to remain the dominant power in the area, and their US/UK/etc allies will go to extreme lengths including the bogus claims against Iran and the sanctions in order to help Israel stay that way.

 

[e36Adz]

Rubbish.

I am confident we will not see an American military strike on Iran unless Iran do something deliberately provocative above and beyond the nuclear issue.

The US isn't stupid. It knows the consequences of military action in Iran would be huge and far reaching on a scale not seen for a very long time. They are desperate to avoid this, which is why the whole thing has been dragging on for years and years and years and years. The huge surge in oil price alone will cripple the US economically for a start. Look what happened to the world economy conviently around the same time oil hit $150...

And as for the Pakistan thing, just lol.

I'm gonna hold you to that.

The US economy is on the verge of being crippled and I've said many times, I think it will happen. Not because of stupidity on their part, but because it will be initiated by Israel and the US has to support Israel in any military assault.

When it happens, we will see who was talking nonsense.

 

[Calabi]

Rubbish.

I am confident we will not see an American military strike on Iran unless Iran do something deliberately provocative above and beyond the nuclear issue.

The US isn't stupid. It knows the consequences of military action in Iran would be huge and far reaching on a scale not seen for a very long time. They are desperate to avoid this, which is why the whole thing has been dragging on for years and years and years and years. The huge surge in oil price alone will cripple the US economically for a start. Look what happened to the world economy conviently around the same time oil hit $150...

And as for the Pakistan thing, just lol.

I doubt Obama would, but I'm not so sure about a Republican president. They may think it could be just the thing to build up their economy and distract from its own internal problems.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Causing an enormous oil price spike will not build the US economy it will crucify it.

 

[e36Adz]

Causing an enormous oil price spike will not build the US economy it will crucify it.

That's right, which in turn will bring down all other paper currencies.

History repeats itself and a World War will follow. The US military will be stretched to it's limits both abroad and at home, paving the way for Israel to take over, all in my opinion of course.

It is reassuring to see so many people realising and questioning why the West is trying to force Iran into something, it is becoming far too obvious.

There is something Iran can do. If its that confident it isn't developing nuclear weapons, then re-enter talks and allow impartial IEA inspections to prove this.

What absolute and utter tosh. You only need to look at what happened with Iraq to see that Iran is in a no win situation, just like Iraq was. Whether or not they have weapons, whether or not they are trying to develop weapons, has no bearing whatsoever and will not affect what the US and in particular Israel already have planned.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So Israel is going to take over the world?

Why can we never have rational discussions on things like this.

So on the one hand you claim attacking Iran would destroy the US economy and collapse its currency allowing Israel to take over the world, then on the other hand you say America want to attack Iran.

Seems like delusional ranting. There are many iffy things about Israel but I doubt world domination is one of them.

 

[e36Adz]

So Israel is going to take over the world?

Why can we never have rational discussions on things like this.

So on the one hand you claim attacking Iran would destroy the US economy and collapse its currency allowing Israel to take over the world, then on the other hand you say America want to attack Iran.

Seems like delusional ranting. There are many iffy things about Israel but I doubt world domination is one of them.

There is nothing rational about people who believe they can dictate who is and who isn't allowed to have nuclear weapons. The only delusional rantings I hear are from those who have given themselves supreme authority.

You ignore most of my post quite conveniently, and highlight something which you know most people will disagree with. A very poor attempt to try and pull the wool over peoples eyes. It's not comfortable talking about Iraq is it? Back then I am positive you would have been saying the exact same thing as you are now about Iran.

There will be people within the US administration who obviously do care where the country is headed, and they know that the economy will totally collapse if the price of oil shoots up, but you also have people within the US administration who have Israels interests at heart, and who will stop at nothing to ensure Israel becomes the dominant force in the region, and that any potential threat is dealt with.

By all means disagree with me, I've heard it all already from members on these forums. Israel can't possibly become a ruling state since it does not possess the manpower, China is too powerful, India is too powerful, etc etc. Well the US economy is currently on a life support machine, and Israel can pretty much pull the plug on it at will. Let's see how the year pans out because I have a very strong suspicion that these events will start this year.

 

[elmarko]

As always time will tell.

But I'd wager good money on the USA getting involved in another war in the next 12 months.

Let's face it, they have allot of practice.

 

[[TW]Fox]

There is nothing rational about people who believe they can dictate who is and who isn't allowed to have nuclear weapons. The only delusional rantings I hear are from those who have given themselves supreme authority.

You are missing a rather crucial point here. Iran are signatories of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. There are therefore bound by law not to develop such weapons. Nobody is 'preaching' - they freely signed a treaty which legally obligates them.

You ignore most of my post quite conveniently, and highlight something which you know most people will disagree with. A very poor attempt to try and pull the wool over peoples eyes. It's not comfortable talking about Iraq is it? Back then I am positive you would have been saying the exact same thing as you are now about Iran.

It's pointless going into Iraq because if you honestly think we all have the right amount of information to make absolute judgements like you are then you are sadly mistaken. The whole thing was a complete mess and with hindsight a massive mistake however Saddam was less than co-operative, even though it turned out he had nothing to hide. He kicked the inspectors out numerous times, etc etc. Mistakes were made, obviously. But to judge future intention on one past event, even if it’s the only event with any similarities, is foolhardy. It was a different political administration entirely.

There will be people within the US administration who obviously do care where the country is headed, and they know that the economy will totally collapse if the price of oil shoots up, but you also have people within the US administration who have Israels interests at heart, and who will stop at nothing to ensure Israel becomes the dominant force in the region, and that any potential threat is dealt with.

I completely agree with you that there are pro-Israel elements within the US. It would be daft not to. Some of them might have quite bizarre views and even worrying intentions. But we are talking about a country which couldn’t even agree on its damn debt ceiling, so I think you massively overstate the influence these people have. Israels main interest is its own security and the whole Palestine thing. I'm not saying its actions are right, but it's a bit daft to suggest they somehow want to take over the entire world. For the record, I no more support the idea of a nuclear armed Israel than I do a nuclear armed Iran.

America knows it cannot attack Iran. Iran knows America will not attack it. It's in Irans interest to have everyone under the impression that it's all going to kick off. It keeps the peoples minds off the events of 2009, it increases world oil prices which, short term, is a good thing for Iran (Iran are ALWAYS against any attempts to moderate oil prices, seemingly too short sighted to see the effect a huge price-spike will have on future demand) and rallies the people towards the government not against it as has previously been the case.