Over 370,000 immigrants are on benefits

[badcompany]

I'm an immigrant, but I have also been British from the first day I set foot in this country exactly 10 years ago.

Immibeneception!

In your mind maybe its take more that to move to a country to become a national of that country surely?

If I moved to Iran would I be an Iranian ? I f i went to New York I would be an English man in New York would I not?

 

[Nitefly]

And yet DD and his ilk insult us because we do not fit into his misguided idea of what our society stands for.......he questions our very integrity, intellect and judgement simply by implication.

Am I a traitor to my 'own kind' because I do not share xenophobic and isolationist views.....if I am not, then is that not a qualifier for being insulted.....

I think there is quite a clear line between being incidently insulted / offended by something and being on the receiving end of a personal attack. If I were you, I really wouldn't be offended by some of the nonsense that cheets64 comes out with and laugh / shrug it off. If is does bother you, as before, RTM it

 

[LeJosh]

Are you joking? I quite obviously disagreed with cheets64 with his views by regarding them as ludicrous (with qualification), note that this isn't a personal attack.

It's not hard to express disagreement without being issuing a personal attack. This is a complete non-issue. Carry on with the discussion.

We're talking about DD...

And it's just hilarious how much they get away with it. When the rest of the forum are scrutinised for much less.

All he makes threads about are immigrants. And everyone gets annoyed but nope, it stays because the agenda at ocuk land thinks immigration is destroying us all. Won't someone think of the whites.

 

[Castiel]

But then I also think national pride is idiotic. It's a personal thing, but I just don't understand what there is to be "proud" of. It's the country you were born in, you had no say, choice or any influence over it. Be proud of the people in your life for the things they have done, and yourself.

So you think being proud of the things that your Society stands for....Democracy, Rule of Law, Freedom of Thought, The Collective History, Culture and Identity is all idiotic?

Your culture and nationality in part define you...and there is nothing innately wrong with with being proud of your Nation or your position within.


I think you are confusing patriotism with Collective Narcissism and Jingoism.....

 

[krooton]

In your mind maybe its take more that to move to a country to become a national of that country surely?

If I moved to Iran would I be an Iranian ? I f i went to New York I would be an English man in New York would I not?

I got registered as a British national (thanks mum) just before I moved over here. That doesn't change the fact that 2/3rds of my life were spent in South Africa making me an immigrant. You wouldn't guess I was a saffa though (unless you picked up on how I pronounce 'yoghurt', 'off' and 'sure' differently)

 

[krooton]

So you think being proud of the things that your Society stands for....Democracy, Rule of Law, Freedom of Thought, The Collective History, Culture and Identity is all idiotic?

Your culture and nationality in part define you...and there is nothing innately wrong with with being proud of your Nation or your position within.


I think you are confusing patriotism with Collective Narcissism and Jingoism.....

You are confusing the dictionary definition of patriotism with how people who consider themselves patriots actually are.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

So you think being proud of the things that your Society stands for....Democracy, Rule of Law, Freedom of Thought, The Collective History, Culture and Identity is all idiotic?

You're putting words in his mouth - he said nothing like that.

 

[kylew]

I don't care if it's your genuine views, you don't insult people on the forum. You can wildly disagree with someone without resulting to personal insults (see below). If you have been insulted, use the RTM button. If I see it, I'll do something about it.

I suppose I could do the same? I don't care if you thin it's an insult, that's not my intention and I don't believe it is (see how that works?). Now you talk about using the RTM button, but you're not addressing the issue of OcUK seemingly ignoring people like DD and letting them get away with a lot.

How have I changed since I've become an underboss? I still post exactly the same and this is the first thread I think I've discussed any moderation in.

Because I wouldn't have expected this from you before becoming an underboss. It's a shame really.


Are you joking? I quite obviously disagreed with cheets64 with his views by regarding them as ludicrous (with qualification), note that this isn't a personal attack.

It's not hard to express disagreement without being issuing a personal attack. This is a complete non-issue. Carry on with the discussion.

You're portraying DD as if he is reasonable and we're just disagreeing with some "controversial" views that he has, and you think we're insulting him? I find that in itself pretty insulting. I think you should use the RTM button on yourself.

Drink driving is pretty scummy behaviour, no? To apply that then to DD isn't a personal attack or insult because the very intention of such things is to cause offence over it being true. It's about context and I think you're purposefully refusing to acknowledge that.

 

[bowey]

But then I also think national pride is idiotic. It's a personal thing, but I just don't understand what there is to be "proud" of. It's the country you were born in, you had no say, choice or any influence over it. Be proud of the people in your life for the things they have done, and yourself.

lol, wow

 

[Castiel]

It is idiotic by nature. It means giving up at least some of your independent thought to the pack.

No it doesn't...it is simply participating in shared values and identity.......no one is saying you have to be patriotic, what I am saying is that those who find their shared national and cultural values somethong to be proud of are not idiots.

It seems people cannot differentiate between patriotism and jingoism.

Too many people in the UK, especially England seem to have erroneously identified patriotism and nationalism with xenophobia, racism and isolationism...all thanks to the BNP and their misrepresentation of what being patriotic is......

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Drink driving is pretty scummy behaviour, no? To apply that then to DD isn't a personal attack or insult because the very intention of such things is to cause offence over it being true. It's about context and I think you're purposefully refusing to acknowledge that.

I am insulted (I really, truly am) that the words said to DD were found to be insulting. Does that mean they'll be reinstated?

 

[WingZero30]

OP do you really think that many of these immigrants who come for whatever reason to this country get employment on the day of arrival?

It can take some time for them to adjust to UK way of life plus I am sure many of them wouldn't be much conversant in english.

Ofcourse this puts strain on country resources but from human rights perspective some help has to be given to them initially.

The other option is to let them starve to death on UK soil, if that's what you want?

Ofcourse I never agree to anyone being on benefits for a long time.

OP if you simply state that doors to immigration in this country should be closed then you should take this issue with relevant authorities

Besides more nationals in this country are seeking benefits than recent arrivals.

 

[kylew]

In your mind maybe its take more that to move to a country to become a national of that country surely?

If I moved to Iran would I be an Iranian ? I f i went to New York I would be an English man in New York would I not?

Just think for a moment about the differences between visiting a country and gaining citizenship. The reason you hold such views is because you seem to think race and nationality intrinsically linked..

So you think being proud of the things that your Society stands for....Democracy, Rule of Law, Freedom of Thought, The Collective History, Culture and Identity is all idiotic?

Your culture and nationality in part define you...and there is nothing innately wrong with with being proud of your Nation or your position within.


I think you are confusing patriotism with Collective Narcissism and Jingoism.....

As hatter the mad said, you're putting words in my mouth, but I don't think "pride" is even the right way to describe such things. "Appreciation" I would argue is much more suitable.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

No it doesn't..

Yes, it does. Patriotism is (in addition to what you say about traditions and culture) devotion/good feeling/pride to one's country: ie an arbitrarily drawn border.

I think you're simply cherry picking parts of what patriotism is. Even in the narrow sense, it involves a devotion to one's country, and therefore is idiotic by nature because it does involve giving up some rationale and independent thought to the pack mentality.

 

[Castiel]

You're putting words in his mouth - he said nothing like that.

Which is why it had a question mark.........how is a question putting words in peoples mouths?

Maybe he can speak for himself.....as you are putting words in his mouth by defining what he meant by national pride, are you not?

Ironic don't you think?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Which is why it had a question mark.........how is a question putting words in peoples mouths?

It came across as an insinuation.

Maybe he can speak for himself.....as you are putting words in his mouth by defining what he meant by national pride, are you not?

I didn't define 'what he meant', did I?

Ironic don't you think?

Not at all.

 

[arctine]

As hatter the mad said, you're putting words in my mouth, but I don't think "pride" is even the right way to describe such things. "Appreciation" I would argue is much more suitable.

What a load of nonsense.

Of course pride is the right word to describe pride.

 

[kylew]

Which is why it had a question mark.........how is a question putting words in peoples mouths?

That's true, I neglected to take note of that.

Maybe he can speak for himself.....as you are putting words in his mouth by defining what he meant by national pride, are you not?

Ironic don't you think?

It's this "Yes, it does. Patriotism is (in addition to what you say about traditions and culture) devotion/good feeling/pride to one's country: ie an arbitrarily drawn border." that I speak of. To be "proud" of your country is indeed arbitrary. I feel as if I'm "lucky" to live in the UK compared to other places, and I do genuinely enjoy the life I live and the freedom I have, but I wouldn't associate that with being patriotic or national pride.

Maybe I'm using the wrong words to describe what I mean? I don't know.

lol, wow

Okay, so you disagree. Care to provide a counter argument? It's very easy to respond to some one in a way that makes them look ridiculous, but you've not actually said anything meaningful.

I am insulted (I really, truly am) that the words said to DD were found to be insulting. Does that mean they'll be reinstated?

I agree, it's pandering again. I am definitely not surprised though.

 

[Pate]

No it doesn't...it is simply participating in shared values and identity.......no one is saying you have to be patriotic, what I am saying is that those who find their shared national and cultural values somethong to be proud of are not idiots.

It seems people cannot differentiate between patriotism and jingoism.

Too many people in the UK, especially England seem to have erroneously identified patriotism and nationalism with xenophobia, racism and isolationism...all thanks to the BNP and their misrepresentation of what being patriotic is......

How the British people allowed their national pride and their flag to be hijacked by the BNP and their ilk still astounds me.

 

[mushroomsoup]

Years of misguided socialist policy has created a semi criminal benefit scrounging underclass of British people and the current solution is to - instead of sorting the mess out - is to hire immigrants and ignore the problem. When the immigrants start becoming lazy like the people they replace the solution is - yes you guessed it - more immigrants. Meanwhile the British worker is told he is less employable than an immigrant and that he should fester on benefits and if he complains he is an intolerant racist.

How long can this last?