• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

7970 OR Asus GeForce GTX 580 quick question...

Associate
Joined
9 Jan 2012
Posts
226
On Wednesday I should be buying my new PC


Now I've got most sorted but have a questions about the Graphic cards.

On the System build thing I saw that one:-

Asus GeForce GTX 580 DirectCU II 1536MB GDDR5

was priced at £296 if you wanted one, and if you wanted a second graphics card the second would cost £316.


I then looked at the .

Now questions is this...

What would be better,

Q1,

Two Asus GeForce GTX 580 DirectCU II 1536MB GDDR5
or
Two HIS ATI Radeon HD 7970

Q2,

Two Asus GeForce GTX 580 DirectCU II 1536MB GDDR5
or
One HIS ATI Radeon HD 7970

---

I already know if I have the choice between either one Asus or one 7970 I'd pick the 7970. But just getting a bit confused on the whole thing.

Thanks!
 
2 580's would beat out a single 7970. but then you would need to have a beefy power supply. obviously 2 7970's would win out overall and use less power saving you money in the long term but if you can afford 2 7970's you might as well wait till march for the 7990 or whenever its due to hit :-)
 
2 580's would beat out a single 7970. but then you would need to have a beefy power supply. obviously 2 7970's would win out overall and use less power saving you money in the long term but if you can afford 2 7970's you might as well wait till march for the 7990 or whenever its due to hit :-)

I see I see... And with the 7990 I think your on about the 7950 but maybe wrong ... =]

If so apparently they'll run just better than the 580s, but won't have as much RAM as the 7970 so will be slightly cheaper.

Again, Thank you for the quick reply. =]!
 
Last edited:
No he's on about the 7990 which is the dual-gpu version of the 7970

The 7950 will have a 1.5 and 3gb option. I think performance will be pretty much equal if not slightly ahead of the 580, and when you consider overclocking potential the 7950 is better.
 
I've had enough of multi-GPU systems... I've had dual 6800GTX, 7800GTX, a 4870x2 and SLI 480s. But that's it for me - I've had enough of microstutter, it really eats away performance.

So, assuming you're gaming at 1080p, I'd suggest a single 7970 - it should give you more than enough horsepower. Kepler should beat the 7970, but you're looking at March-April time for its release.
 
I've had enough of multi-GPU systems... I've had dual 6800GTX, 7800GTX, a 4870x2 and SLI 480s. But that's it for me - I've had enough of microstutter, it really eats away performance.

So, assuming you're gaming at 1080p, I'd suggest a single 7970 - it should give you more than enough horsepower. Kepler should beat the 7970, but you're looking at March-April time for its release.

Sorry to go off point but I have never had an sli/crossfire setup. Microstutter I hear quite or should say read quite abit about.
My questions are:
1). Is it realy noticable/prominent?
2). Does this happen on all system setups?
3). is there a way to stop it?

Thanks for any info as I am keen to go the sli/crossfire route but not if it causes problems.
 
All I can say is I have never noticed micro stutter on my SLI setup.

That's because it isn't something you "see" directly, like tearing or skipping or paging, or poor-quality AA/AF. It acts as an apparent reduction to the framerate. Your FPS counter may say 50fps, but the smoothness of the game may be more similar to a single-GPU running at 40fps (as an example).

In short, "microstutter" is the irregular output of frames. One frame is output, followed by a shorter gap to the next, then a longer gap (etc). If the frames are output irregularly, the game scene does not look as smooth as when they are output at uniform intervals. It's nothing to do with "hitching", paging, or other small pauses in gameplay.

I'll quote some stuff I've written before. There's plenty of other threads on here with this discussion in if you want to search for more info:




Microstutter is not something that you will "notice" just by looking at the screen, unless the framerate is already low (low enough that you can catch the irregularity in frame output), but that doesn't mean it has no effect. When the framerate is higher, the effect of irregular frame output is an apparent reduction in smoothness (since the key factor in fooling the eye into believing a series of pictures are a fluid moving image is the maximum gap between frames). The end-product effect is similar to just dropping the framerate a little.

Anyway, I've written loads of stuff on these forums and others about microstutter (see this thread) if you want to search for it. I also wrote a program to quantify the amount of microstutter in a benchmark taken with FRAPS, so you can find out for yourself easily enough. But anyway, in short:

- Microstutter is the name given to irregular frame output. With two or more GPUs working in the "alternate frame rendering" (AFR) mode that both Nvidia and AMD use, frames are not always output evenly. You can get one frame, then a very short gap until the next frame, then a longer gap until the next one, and so on.

* This effect makes the game seem less smooth for a given framerate than if the frames were output evenly.

* Unless the framerate is very low, so that you can see individual frames, you won't be able to look at a game scene and say "hey this is microstuttering!" - it simply makes your game scene appear less smooth for a given framerate. Or, conversely, you need a slightly higher framerate for the game to seem as smooth as with a single GPU. This is the main reason for so much misunderstanding about microstutter.

* The amount of microstutter can vary significantly from game to game. But, in most circumstances that it occurs, you're looking at an effective reduction in smoothness equivalent to around 10-25% in comparison to a regular frame output (see the thread I linked to for quantitative details).

* Bear in mind that the amount of performance you will gain from adding a second card will almost always be much larger than the 10-25% effective drop from microstutter. In almost every case, you DO get an improvement in smoothness from adding a second card. So, it's well worthwhile.

* ...The real question comes when considering dual-GPU setups of low-end cards when a single high-end card can offer similar performance. In these cases, the effectove value of the dual-card setup is somewhat less than benchmarks may lead you to believe (since they only measure the raw number of frames output and take no account of "smoothness" effects caused by irregular frame output). In these cases it is often better to consider a single higher-end GPU.

* Microstutter disappears almost entirely whenever the GPU is made to wait between frames. In these circumstances the output from the GPUs syncs up to the regular output of whatever is holding them back. The most common two circumstances where this occurs are: 1) When vsync is enabled, 2) When the CPU is limiting the framerate (again, see that thread for more quantitativ details).

My tests found microstutter in a wide range of multi-GPU setups. The amount of microstutter varies, but typically takes an effective 10-25% from the "true" framerate. Unsurprisingly, triple and quad GPU setups suffer from much higher amounts of microstutter.


I first noticed that something was "not quite right" when I switched from a 6800GTX SLI setup to a single 7800GTX. I was getting pretty much the same framerates, but gameplay was far smoother. When I added a second 7800GTX and didn't see quite the improvement I expected, I started looking at frametime outputs from FRAPS, and noticed that SLI outputs were much moe irregular.

Eventually I wrote a little program to quantify the amount of microstutter from a FRAPS output (see this thread). Taking the assumption that the larger gap between frames is the dominant factor in determining local "game smoothness", I estimate that microstutter from most multi-GPU setups effectively eats away 20 - 30% of the framerate (in apparent terms).

As I said, adding a second GPU still gives you real world performance increases - just not as much as you would expect from looking at benchmarks. For me, it's not worth the extra heat, power, and compatibility issues with some new games. From now on, I'm going to go with a single heavily overclocked GPU under water I think.
 
Very very good info cheers Duff-Man. My main interest for SLI/Crossfire is for tri screens and I have very good eyesight (I think) so would feel "let down" if I was to notice or feel slight inconsistancies.
Thanks for taking your time to clarify my questions and your prefvious links.
 
If you're dead set on multiple GPUs then wait for the 7950.

But I agree. Just get the best you can afford and get a single card. That's always going to be the headache free route.


Sorry to go off point but I have never had an sli/crossfire setup. Microstutter I hear quite or should say read quite abit about.
My questions are:
1). Is it realy noticable/prominent?
2). Does this happen on all system setups?
3). is there a way to stop it?

Thanks for any info as I am keen to go the sli/crossfire route but not if it causes problems.

1. Yes. It is really noticable and really really annoying. Try hurtling along a road at 150mph in NFS Hot Pursuit (2010) and have it stutter on you just as you're about to avoid a roadblock.

2. Yes.

3. No. It's caused by a delay in the card's alternating their rendering. Drivers can help, and so can games that support it. Sadly there is absolutely nothing in it for game makers to want to bother supporting it. It would require a separate release to the original game or a patch, which involves work. And why would you work at something that costs money to do to cater to people silly enough to have loads of graphics cards when hardly anything supports it?

IMO and I mean this in a really frank manner - multiple GPUs is a catch 22.

Why make games that support it for a minority?

Why buy two GPUs if only a minority use them, and thus support for them is very very low?

^ take that, and sit and say it a hundred times. You will be no closer to a reason or end to the riddle. *IF* (and it won't happen) the Xbox 720 "Kitchen Sink" edition had dual GPUs you would see support for them in pretty much every PC game. Because, as sad as it is, you need to remember that 99% of PC games are simply cross compiled after thoughts from the console code that made them the money. They're an afterthought, a "bonus pay-cheque"
 
Last edited:
If you're dead set on multiple GPUs then wait for the 7950.

But I agree. Just get the best you can afford and get a single card. That's always going to be the headache free route.

I agree here but but but....grrrrr mind is going to explode. I basically cant afford till end of feb anyways but I deffo want three screens and to play smoothly on three sreens but not at the cost of "the game doesn't feel smooth". Hard to explain what I mean but regardless, my setup would be complete by June, so it may pay me to wait and see what keplar brings to the table or I might just do like usual and buy now and regret later.

I always do have the option of, as you say, buy a second card 7950/7970 If it isn't what I was after then return it within 7 days.

I see you added to your post and realy it is good info. I like smooth. I don't like ruff (least not what I will talk anout on this forum) :D
thanks bud.
 
Last edited:
I agree here but but but....grrrrr mind is going to explode. I basically cant afford till end of feb anyways but I deffo want three screens and to play smoothly on three sreens but not at the cost of "the game doesn't feel smooth". Hard to explain what I mean but regardless, my setup would be complete by June, so it may pay me to wait and see what keplar brings to the table or I might just do like usual and buy now and regret later.

I always do have the option of, as you say, buy a second card 7950/7970 If it isn't what I was after then return it within 7 days.

Honestly mate I really really can't put this any simpler.

And again, I mean no offence. People who have multiple GPU set ups that say "I run three cards and have no problems !" are bloody liars.

If you have a good pair of eyes and if you are the sort of person who enables Vsync because he doesn't like tearing just so he can jack off over the FPS count (IE - 99% of the world's population) then avoid multi GPU set ups at all cost.

The amount of games out there that actually support it properly and natively can be counted on one hand. These are the ones that will truly live up to the "I run a multi GPU system and have no problems". Sadly they are in very small numbers and it ain't changing.

Look. What was the last game completely and totally and natively coded on a PC? I'll save you looking - it was Crysis. Not Crysis 2, that was console slop with an "Afterthought" patch.

PC gamers are a minority, a 1%. SLI/CF users are a minority of that minority, so 1% of 1%. That doesn't really leave a lot of % to feel hopeful that companies such as Bethsoft are going to give a stuff.

That would be why Skyrim, after adding more than two cards, simply refuses to go any faster. Infact, natively the game only supports one GPU. It also only supports 2gb of ram (the same as Fallout 3) so once the mods come (and it gets prettier) it's going to need a fix like Fallout 3 does to stop it simply memory stack crashing to desktop.

One stutter is enough to ruin a game experience, and I played very very few that didn't do it at least once.

Not only that, but when a level began (like a race, for example) there was about a five second delay in everything being drawn on screen. Try getting a good lap time with that going on.
 
Some very good valid points ALXandy and I have taken them on board. I guess my other alternative of 3D on one monitor is the way for me then.
Thanks bro :) you and duff have made my mind up.
 
Not to throw a spanner in the works, but... :p

If you're gaming on three screens you might end up needing the extra GPU horsepower. I'd still recommend going for a 7970 though - certainly over a 1.5Gb GTX580 as you will want the extra VRAM on some games. You can always add another later if you feel you need more horsepower (and I suspect they will drop in price considerably once Kepler is released around March / April time).

I've not used 3D personally, but triple screen gaming is great - when it works well. Very few games seem to support it 100%. with most you can find a way to wrangle it out, but there are often artifacts (like the horizontal mouse sensitivity is higher than the vertical, or the crosshair is huge). When it works well it really does pull you in though.

If you're not buying until February, I'd say hold off making a decision until closer to the time. The new Nvidia cards could show up around March time - they should be able to outperform the 7970, and should certainly lead to price drops from AMD.


edit: My personal experience of multi-GPU systems is not nearly so bleak as ALXAndy makes out. But still - for now they're more hassle than they're worth (IMO).
 
Not to throw a spanner in the works, but... :p

If you're gaming on three screens you might end up needing the extra GPU horsepower. I'd still recommend going for a 7970 though - certainly over a 1.5Gb GTX580 as you will want the extra VRAM on some games. You can always add another later if you feel you need more horsepower (and I suspect they will drop in price considerably once Kepler is released around March / April time).

I've not used 3D personally, but triple screen gaming is great - when it works well. Very few games seem to support it 100%. with most you can find a way to wrangle it out, but there are often artifacts (like the horizontal mouse sensitivity is higher than the vertical, or the crosshair is huge). When it works well it really does pull you in though.

If you're not buying until February, I'd say hold off making a decision until closer to the time. The new Nvidia cards could show up around March time - they should be able to outperform the 7970, and should certainly lead to price drops from AMD.

It's nice to see some honesty around here :D

My biggest gripe with triple screens was how much it zooms in the side monitors. It was OK for driving games, but in Fallout 3 (which needed the cfg adjusting) it was really bad.
 
Back
Top Bottom