A timely arrival: orangutan protectively hugs her daughter as ruthless Borneo bounty hunters move in

arctine · 28 Jan 2012 at 01:27

drunkenmaster said:
Seriously though, I'm a vegetarian, I don't want to eat animals but everything else seems like hypocrisy to me, you either don't want to have animals killed for food/clothing/whatever...... or you do, designating "some" animals as worthy of being saved and others as not is just, laughable to me.

This. (Although I'm not a vegetarian I'm not a hypocrite either.)

arctine · 28 Jan 2012 at 01:30

Hitman_Leon said:
It's not an argument

Good, you agree. I'll ignore the rest of your nonsense

FoxEye · 28 Jan 2012 at 01:41

arctine said:
Sorry... I'll bite...

You're comparing human life with that of an orang-utan because there are more of us?

It's unfortunate that we're unable to keep the Earth's population under control - to stop it growing. Because the more of us there are, the more damage we do to our surroundings - the land, animals, the atmosphere, everything.

The animals haven't done anything wrong, they're just caught up in our headlong rush towards oblivion.

Hitman_Leon · 28 Jan 2012 at 01:42

Of course you may, ignorance is the trait that allows such bad things to happen.

arctine · 28 Jan 2012 at 01:49

Hitman_Leon said:
Of course you may, ignorance is the trait that allows such bad things to happen.

Off topic, I know, but for future reference there's a difference between ignoring something and being ignorant.

d_brennen · 28 Jan 2012 at 01:55

Dimple said:
Pot kettle black.
If this is the quality of what you think makes a good thread then I'm with Robbo -

Who ARE you people and what do you want?

You are a cat, this garden isn't even yours

A wild swimming pool appears!

Aedus · 28 Jan 2012 at 01:56

FoxEye said:
The animals haven't done anything wrong, they're just caught up in our headlong rush towards oblivion.

Tell that to farting cows.

Hitman_Leon · 28 Jan 2012 at 02:10

arctine said:
Off topic, I know, but for future reference there's a difference between ignoring something and being ignorant.

You now demonstrate the capability of rational thought. What is rational about ignoring the killing of endangered species?.

Mr Joshua · 28 Jan 2012 at 02:13

G-MAN2004 said:
No.

I specifically said endangered to stop Glaucus coming in and and starting a 26264824 page thread about why hunting is fine.

LOL!

Threepwood · 28 Jan 2012 at 02:16

Why is hunting only OK when it's done for food?

Something to do with unnecessary suffering.

arctine · 28 Jan 2012 at 02:17

Hitman_Leon said:
You now demonstrate the capability of rational thought. What is rational about ignoring the killing of endangered species?.

You do realise I haven't argued for or against killing orang-utans in this thread, don't you?

Either way, I'll still answer your question on behalf of the hunters. They get money for killing orang-utans. They need money to live. I'm guessing this is the rationale they're acting upon.

shadesofgrey said:
Something to do with unnecessary suffering.

Read drunkenmeisters post as it pretty much sums up what I was getting at there.

FoxEye · 28 Jan 2012 at 02:23

arctine said:
Either way, I'll still answer your question on behalf of the hunters. They get money for killing orang-utans. They need money to live. I'm guessing this is the rationale they're acting upon.

Probably also the rationale that bank robbers have too.

arctine · 28 Jan 2012 at 02:25

FoxEye said:
Probably also the rationale that bank robbers have too.

Yup, probably.

platinum87 · 28 Jan 2012 at 03:43

arctine said:
Killing for gain is natural. It's not a question of right or wrong.

What's right and what's wrong is always going to be subjective and based on opinion. There is no solvable argument to be had.

You are correct sir.

Hitman_Leon said:
It's not an argument it's a question of responsibility.

We think of our selves as superior 'worth more than other species', in turn we do have guardianship of the planet and it's ecosystems in many ways. As a guardian we have responsibility; to protect, there is our responsibility.

Its not a question of responsibility, its a question of law.

Cosimo · 28 Jan 2012 at 08:42

Such wonderful creatures, a great picture and story. I went to a talk at Kew given by Ashley Leiman of the Orangutan Foundation who gave a great insight into the work being done to saving wild orangutans. You can find out more and help here:

http://www.orangutan.org.uk/

Amp34 · 28 Jan 2012 at 10:33

arctine said:
Everything you just said is completely irrelevant to the fact that you would exchange human life to save an orang-utan. You haven't justified yourself in the slightest, you've just given me a bunch of obvious arguments for not killing endangered species.

That's not what I questioned you about, is it?

I'm not sure how I can answer your question to your satisfaction then.

In my mind...

1. There are far more humans on earth than orang-utans
2. The orang-utans were there first
3. These people are not hunting for food, they are killing for profit

So yes I would "exchange" human lives for the life of an endangered species. By exchange however I do not mean kill, like the people in that report, I mean ban/remove people from that area. If they cannot survive because of this then so be it.

Why do you think exchanging an orang-utans life for a humans is fine? Do you know these people or do you just think because they are the same species then they have more right to be there?

Amp34 · 28 Jan 2012 at 10:40

arctine said:
You do realise I haven't argued for or against killing orang-utans in this thread, don't you?

Either way, I'll still answer your question on behalf of the hunters. They get money for killing orang-utans. They need money to live. I'm guessing this is the rationale they're acting upon.

I take it you agree that that argument can be used for a lot of other things too.

People steal because they make money. They need money to live.
People grow Opium/Heroin to make money. They need money to live.

Etc.?

Just because they "need" the money to live doesn't make it "right".

EDIT: Too slow apparently

Tummy · 28 Jan 2012 at 10:42

G-MAN2004 said:
What an amazing and emotional picture. Glad they survived.

Hunting endangered animals is disgraceful.

drunkenmaster · 28 Jan 2012 at 10:57

Amp34 said:
I'm not sure how I can answer your question to your satisfaction then.

In my mind...

1. There are far more humans on earth than orang-utans
2. The orang-utans were there first
3. These people are not hunting for food, they are killing for profit

So yes I would "exchange" human lives for the life of an endangered species. By exchange however I do not mean kill, like the people in that report, I mean ban/remove people from that area. If they cannot survive because of this then so be it.

Why do you think exchanging an orang-utans life for a humans is fine? Do you know these people or do you just think because they are the same species then they have more right to be there?

The people who work in a slaughter house do it FOR PROFIT, not for food for themselves. His point is, as I apparently summed it up susinctly for him(yeah I lolled at that too) is, why do people completely arbitrarily decide, kill and eat that animal, fine, that other animal....... no, its cute, or looks like it has a family or is scared.

Here's a hint, ever cow killed to be eaten has a "family" and will be equally scared, and treated just as badly, and killed. I'm a vegetarian and don't care if other people choose to eat meat but I find people who will eat a bunch of animals, but randomly decide a bunch of other animals being eaten is horrific...... is utterly hyprocrital and laughable.

I'll eat tuna but a dolphin being killed makes my heart bleed........

You'll eat a cow, but be digusted by chinese people eating a dog.....

Eat meat, or don't eat meat, everything in the middle is a bunch of crap. For having animals murdered for our own gains, or not, anything in the middle is a bunch of crap.

arctine · 28 Jan 2012 at 11:03

Amp34 said:
I'm not sure how I can answer your question to your satisfaction then.

In my mind...

1. There are far more humans on earth than orang-utans
2. The orang-utans were there first
3. These people are not hunting for food, they are killing for profit

So yes I would "exchange" human lives for the life of an endangered species. By exchange however I do not mean kill, like the people in that report, I mean ban/remove people from that area. If they cannot survive because of this then so be it.

Why do you think exchanging an orang-utans life for a humans is fine? Do you know these people or do you just think because they are the same species then they have more right to be there?

Well that's not what you said, is it?

You've gone from letting humans die to save orang-utans, to just moving humans out of the area away from the orang-otans.

Also, I never once said killing orang-utans to save a human life is fine. I just implied that killing a human to save an orang-utan definitely isn't fine.

Amp34 said:
I take it you agree that that argument can be used for a lot of other things too.

People steal because they make money. They need money to live.
People grow Opium/Heroin to make money. They need money to live.

Etc.?

Just because they "need" the money to live doesn't make it "right".

EDIT: Too slow apparently

Notice, I didn't say whether I thought this rationale was right or wrong.

I was just answering his question. He implied that the hunters were acting irrationally which isn't the case.

As I've stated earlier in the thread, I refuse to get into an argument about what is right or wrong.