Sale of Goods Act question!

Fenris said:
I have no idea where you are getting this idea of "rental contract" from,
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From the fact that a) the customer no longer has the product and the original retailer/owner does and b) the customer also has paid money for a product that they no longer have. Surely that is the very definition of a rental? It's certainly not a purchase is it?

basically within 6 months, any fault is assumed to have been there all along and finding any proof to the contrary is placed on the retailer. After 6 months and before 6 years (in the UK) this is not the case and the retailer is under no obligation to prove the fault was not there, you also must take into account how long a product is expected to last (A pair of trainers for example are unlikely to last 5 years with regular wear).

If the product is within the 6 years and within its expected life time, the retailer should provide repairs, a replacement OR a partial refund, taking into account usage.

The retailer is under no obligation to provide a full refund if the product has been used for longer than 6 months without fault when the buyer can not prove the fault was present on purchase.
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So it is actual law then? This is why I am asking, I'm not being awkward or anything but am very curious as to whether it has a legal standing or is it yet another piece of 'retailer law' that they'd all like you to think is real but isn't.
 
Dano said:
So it is actual law then? This is why I am asking, I'm not being awkward or anything but am very curious as to whether it has a legal standing or is it yet another piece of 'retailer law' that they'd all like you to think is real but isn't.
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Yes, it's part of the Sale of Goods Act 1979, s48C (I think).
 
sven256 said:
It's quite clear you will send the drive back, they refund you the £36. They then send the drive off to samsung, who replace it for them and they then sell the drive at full price. Thus they get a drive cheaper than they can normally buy them for.
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Exactly what I thought when reading this thread!
 
Dano said:
How does this partial refund situation stand with law?
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It is completely legal under the Sale of Goods Act.

He has benefited from the product for 6 months and therefore a proportionate refund is allowed to take this into account.

Surely it must be very open to disputes due to the fact that you as a customer have not entered into a rental but a purchase contract and they're different under law aren't they? I know when logitech tried it on with me over my faulty G7 some years ago I got a full refund after pointing out that I did not at any time agree to rent their product.
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This is irrelevent and meaningless.
 
[TW]Fox;21139311 said:
They refunded you from a customer service perspective not a legal one. It has nothing to do with rental.
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Yes, I've been educated to that fact now, did you miss Pudney's post and my reply to it?
 
[eNote Notification]
Dear *******,

We have replied to your eNote, number ********, as follows :

Dear ***** ********

Thank you for your response.

Your comments regarding the service you received are very important to us. We want customers to enjoy shopping with ******, so your report of a disturbing experience is a serious concern for ******. Words cannot express how truly sorry I am for the anxiety, frustration and inconvenience that has been caused. You deserve only the best service.

I have looked into this query and can advise your refund is in line with Sale of Goods Act 1979 Section F40 48B. ****** have to sent a replacement as the cost would be disproportionate to the cost to replace the product.


I apologise for any inconvenience or annoyance caused. If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you.


Kind Regards,

Christina

****** Customer Support Team
-----------------------------------------------

This is their latest reply to me on the subject and they are apparently ignoring my request to have the drive returned to me and have their offer of a partial refund returned to them. What are my next options?

I did not request a refund. It was given to me without my authorisation and I am of the belief that this is in breach of my consumer rights. The drive is under manufacturers warranty until 2014, so if they are failing to replace or repair the drive as per my initial request, then I believe I have the right to request the drive be returned so that I may make my own arrangements to have the drive repaired. Can they refuse this request, or as seems to now be the case - simply ignore it?

They have failed to explain how the cost of having drive repaired or replaced is disproportianate to the refund given to me. As the drive os covered by the manufacturers warranty, surely the only cost to the retailer is the shipping of the drive to said manufacturer?

Any further advice is muh appreciated.
 
Being a motherboard technician at various MB makers for the last 12 years has brought me into contact with this situation many times. I can best describe partial refunds as such: Is it legal? Yes. Is it a good idea? No.

What this company is doing is "cutting to the chase". The company always gets to arbitrarily decide if a repair is "disproportional". They don't need to give you a break down or reasons as to why. Their internal processes are none of your business. They also don't need to ask your permission to take an action once an item has been received or even advise you as to what they are doing. Basically once an item is properly received for service the ball is in their court.

This then brings us to the matter of whether it is good idea or not. In all my experience I can honestly say no. Partial refunds often leave people feeling powerless, and ripped off. Which invariably leads to loss of customer.

And there you have it. The penalty to them is the loss of your business. No more no less. It's a risk they take by taking this path, but don't kid yourself. They have likely long since calculated this into the big picture and determined that it is far more profitable to take the morally dodgy path of partial refunds rather than sticking to the morally safe path that is classic repair and return.
 
If you paid by credit card I would advise reversing the original payment ASAP, if they are going to try and exploit the law to try and defraud you then you should follow suit.

What they have done is not legal under SOGA, they cannot simply refund you without your consent, they must give you a choice of refund/repair/replacement this is your decision not theirs, yes they can refuse a repair/replacement on grounds of disproportionate cost however to simply take your drive and send you money when you had requested a warranty replacement is wrong.

I think we all know what their doing here, their giving you the £36 then their going to RMA your drive (if they haven't already done so) and sell the replacement. If I were you I would be on the phone demanding my drive be returned to me (or on the phone to AMEX reversing my original payment)
 
Ok thanks.

They had already indicated they would be willing to return the drive to me after i initially requested that. However, they are now basically ignoring this. Ripped off is very much the case!

They now have a drive whih they will be able to return to Samsung which is fully under warranty, which Samsung will either repair or replace allowing them to sell the drive as either a new or a refurb. I am however left in a situation where I cannot afford to replace the drive due to the rise in price of the drive!

How can this ever be considered fair or reasonable? I will never again RMA an item to a retailer. Disgusted.
 
steve1873 said:
They now have a drive whih they will be able to return to Samsung which is fully under warranty, which Samsung will either repair or replace allowing them to sell the drive as either a new or a refurb. I am however left in a situation where I cannot afford to replace the drive due to the rise in price of the drive!

How can this ever be considered fair or reasonable? I will never again RMA an item to a retailer. Disgusted.
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This is why I always use my credit card to pay online.
 
Unfortunately it was paid for by debit card via paypal as the original purchase was via the retailers outlet on ebay.

Yes, it was my understanding that it was my choice whether to rescind the contract by acceptin an offer of a refund, if they refused to repair or replace!

I have been polite, yet firm in my correspondance with their customer service department, but their responses have left me feeling frustrated, massively inconvenienced and actually have not slept well since this whole ordeal began.
 
ubersonic said:
This is why I always use my credit card to pay online.
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Keep in mind thou that reversing credit card charges is not entirely without risk either. If it is "determined" (and I use that loosely) that this was "unlawful" then the company could put debt collectors onto you at worst. At the least you could end up with a black mark on your credit rating. Not so much fun when your sitting in the mortgage office years from now and this pops up. Reversing CC charges is a rather drastic step regardless of how commonplace it has become.
 
steve1873 said:
Unfortunately it was paid for by debit card via paypal as the original purchase was via the retailers outlet on ebay.

Yes, it was my understanding that it was my choice whether to rescind the contract by acceptin an offer of a refund, if they refused to repair or replace!

I have been polite, yet firm in my correspondance with their customer service department, but their responses have left me feeling frustrated, massively inconvenienced and actually have not slept well since this whole ordeal began.
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Some debit cards allow for chargebacks. I would speak to your card provider. I would also speak to consumer direct regarding the legalities of them refusing to return your property.
 
steve1873 said:
[eNote Notification]
Dear *******,

We have replied to your eNote, number ********, as follows :

Dear ***** ********

Thank you for your response.

Your comments regarding the service you received are very important to us. We want customers to enjoy shopping with ******, so your report of a disturbing experience is a serious concern for ******. Words cannot express how truly sorry I am for the anxiety, frustration and inconvenience that has been caused. You deserve only the best service.

I have looked into this query and can advise your refund is in line with Sale of Goods Act 1979 Section F40 48B. ****** have to sent a replacement as the cost would be disproportionate to the cost to replace the product.


I apologise for any inconvenience or annoyance caused. If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you.


Kind Regards,

Christina

****** Customer Support Team
-----------------------------------------------

This is their latest reply to me on the subject and they are apparently ignoring my request to have the drive returned to me and have their offer of a partial refund returned to them. What are my next options?

I did not request a refund. It was given to me without my authorisation and I am of the belief that this is in breach of my consumer rights. The drive is under manufacturers warranty until 2014, so if they are failing to replace or repair the drive as per my initial request, then I believe I have the right to request the drive be returned so that I may make my own arrangements to have the drive repaired. Can they refuse this request, or as seems to now be the case - simply ignore it?

They have failed to explain how the cost of having drive repaired or replaced is disproportianate to the refund given to me. As the drive os covered by the manufacturers warranty, surely the only cost to the retailer is the shipping of the drive to said manufacturer?

Any further advice is muh appreciated.
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Tell them that you want a repair under warranty not a replacement, it will cost them less than £5 to post it to the manufacturer (in this case Seagate) I would hardly call that disproportionately expensive, it will only cost them postage which SOGA states they must pay. They are going to end up profitting at your expense.

SOGA talks about "without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;" which may work in your favour, because in this case a partial refund is exactly that when compared to a repair under warranty.

Also mention that you will be contacting CAB to let them know that you will not simply let this drop if they wont return the drive.

P.S. Have you talked to CAB yet?
 
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mmj_uk said:
Tell them that you want a repair under warranty not a replacement, it will cost them less than £5 to post it to the manufacturer (in this case Seagate) I would hardly call that disproportionately expensive, it will only cost them postage which SOGA states they must pay. They are going to end up profitting at your expense.

SOGA talks about "without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;" which may work in your favour, because in this case a partial refund is exactly that when compared to a repair under warranty.

Also mention that you will be contacting CAB to let them know that you will not simply let this drop if they wont return the drive.

P.S. Have you talked to CAB yet?
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I will be contacting my local CAB tomorrow afternoon after my work. Thanks.
 
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