IT Professionals- In here!
- Thread starter Bes
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Caporegime
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Do you realise how many IT people we have coming in all the time? We started a big recruitment drive about 2 years ago and now our IT dept is about 70% Indian. We got so many Indian CVs in and hardly any English people. Good money too (London rates). There are loads of qualified Indian people immigrating all the time and this drives down salaries. Also, companies off-shore IT jobs, not even just 1st line support, development and database stuff too. FYI, I'm am immigrant too, so not having a whinge, just stating the facts
Yup, i have been in the business for nearly 6 years and most of the people i have worked in the last two companies have been 90% indian.
Infact, As a whole. i could literely count you the amount of british/english born people who i have met as coders.
About 5-6 people! And i have worked with over 50+different developers throughout my time!
First job i was in, they was mostly french, 2nd job was mostly australians and the 3rd and 4th place are mostly indians.
Point is this, i dont think many of us british guys fancy doing Programming. Its not an easy job to just learn and do. At face value you could say its the most boring job ever because you lierely sit infront of o the PC writing Code.
The magic happens mentaly and if you mentally cannot stand coding, then you wont enjoy it and succeed on it.
That is true mate, the max i have seen is around 60k. im on 42k btw after about 5 years experience so not bad myself. I am 95% certain i will go contract once i am done in the current perm place im in.
The contract rates for my line of work, i can easily get £400 a day mate. I have worked with many contractors and tbh mate, they are no better or worse then us perm in terms of ability and skill.
I could have pursued a contract role with SKY offering £400 a day on a rolling 3month contract but i diddnt because the place is too far and at the time, wasnt desperate to jump ship.
My mate works there though and said its well chilled and relaxed. A shame about the location though! London is a BIG place lads.
My plan is to go contracting after this place once i sort out my first mortgage first(lenders dont like to lend out mortgage to contract workers) and for my Wife to stabalise herself in a Perm Nursing role.
Has a contractor you could earn triple what a 42k person earns, save half of your salary each month for a rainy day and after saving a redicolous amount of cash a year(20k cash assuming u earna round 4k after tax per month and save half of that for a year) You can use that to pay off your mortgage quicker, buy a new car in cash or go on a holiday.
That is my plan
There is money to be made in IT but it is a very dynamic area of field. i have had to learn both j2me and android as J2ME died a few years ago and no doubt Android will eventualy die and will need to learn the next big thing.
Ever changing dynamic Enviornment mate.
If you do go contracting and plan to get a mortgage, i suggest you get a perm first, geta mortgage and then go contracting or do the reverse, go contracting for 2 years on 4k per month, save 40k cash for mortgage deposit, get a perm role, get a mortgage and then go back to contract and your laughing.
Associate
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- 7 Feb 2008
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Yeah the guys on the ground know you end up with crap code from these outsourcing companies (since they will hire the cheapest, least skilled people to maximise their profits), but the people making the decisions often just see the cost savings and go with the cheaper option. We almost outsourced to a company in Manila last year (3 Manila devs cost the same as 1 UK dev) but luckily the CTO changed his mind.
Permabanned
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2004 - 1st line support desk - 13k
2005 - 2nd line support desk - 16k
2006 - did not work
2007 - 1st/2nd line support analyst 23k
2008 - 1st/2nd line support analyst 26k
2009 - 1st/2nd line support analyst 27k
2010 - 1st/3rd line support analyst 28k
2011 - 1st/3rd line technical consultant 30k
2005 - 2nd line support desk - 16k
2006 - did not work
2007 - 1st/2nd line support analyst 23k
2008 - 1st/2nd line support analyst 26k
2009 - 1st/2nd line support analyst 27k
2010 - 1st/3rd line support analyst 28k
2011 - 1st/3rd line technical consultant 30k
Caporegime
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- Lorville - Hurston
from 17k t0 42k in 5 years is my take
2010 - Graduated from Uni with BSc Business IT
2010 - Started a graduate role for a large IT security firm, mainly managing technical projects - 18.5K
2011 - Same role but given a company car + salary increase - 22K
2012 - Salary increase - 24K
2010 - Started a graduate role for a large IT security firm, mainly managing technical projects - 18.5K
2011 - Same role but given a company car + salary increase - 22K
2012 - Salary increase - 24K
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Perhaps of more interest is the variety - some people bag themselves say +50% salary in the space of 1-2 years whereas others slowly creep up. When looking at the reasons why you have to consider how much is down to:
+Personal drive and ambition channeled in the correct way
+Getting 'lucky' in terms of working for a firm that actively develops staff careers
+Getting 'lucky' in terms of applying for the right jobs and the right times and having straightforward interviews
+"BS" as one person puts it
+Being so exceptional that rapid development is almost inevitable
On the flipside maybe some develop slowly because of:
-Very little active or productive career drive, expecting things to happen without them forcing it through.
-Being 'unlucky' in terms of working for a company that does not proactively develop staff - coupled with the above meaning they don't try and move out of that role quickly enough
-Being 'unlucky' in terms of making the wrong career moves or tripping up in interviews
-Not selling themselves well
-Just aren't really anything to write home about in terms of their abilities
Interesting thread, sure is eye opening to see the difference in people's progression. I'm currently half way through my internship working as a BA for a fortune 500 company. Certainly has it perks but I get the feeling I'm just one of the many fishes fighting to the top (crappy analogy, huh?)
Would ideally like to set-up my own consultancy company concentrating on ERP/BPM solutions, that seems to be a relatively untapped market in terms of providing to SMEs.
Got to finish my final year first!!
Would ideally like to set-up my own consultancy company concentrating on ERP/BPM solutions, that seems to be a relatively untapped market in terms of providing to SMEs.
Got to finish my final year first!!
I was in my late 20s back in the 90s, and contracting at around £2k a week, about £100k a year, did it between 26-33. Gave it up once I had enough money to do what I really liked to do. If you IT newbies want to earn some money forget about working for a company permanently, up tools and contract.
It's not easy, you'll be on the bench a lot, you'll have to deal with pimps but it'll get you the money you hope for in IT unless you are really a genius and an entrepreneur.
It's not easy, you'll be on the bench a lot, you'll have to deal with pimps but it'll get you the money you hope for in IT unless you are really a genius and an entrepreneur.
Get experience in tech dept of investement banks and the financial instruments, and this is possible.
IBs pay 400-600pd for IT peeps.. so 100k+ is doable. But its pretty hard to break into. They wont even look at you if you havent had experience in that environment, and to get experience, you need brilliant qualifications or a lot of luck.
Caporegime
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- 7 Apr 2008
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- Lorville - Hurston
My current job is in the finance sector.been here for 6 months now and i basicallly got this role due to my mate work works here!
So far i am loving it. The finance sector is not as daughting and hard as people have made it out to be! granted i am just making mobile banking apps but i am pushing to join the backend side where the real money and opportunities are!
It is also AND I MEAN VERY VERY VITAL you keep all the people you worked with in the past, in contact! Thats how i landed this job mate.
i also know a mate who is working as a backend developer in the mother of all investment banks. UBS!! guess how he got that job. through a mate who he knows that works there!
How stable is contract work?
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Soldato
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- 19 Apr 2004
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- 4,793
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- London
You can get those kind of rates outside of IBs if you've got the right skillset - probably not easy though.
It does make a massive difference if you have a good network of friends/ex-colleagues that you have built up over the years. Don't burn bridges - it's a small world out there!
Back in 2007 when I joined, they took on 5 people including me to be trainees, 2 were graduates. However I worked my butt off and passed all the exams before the others and was pushed out to the middle east on a project asap. Because I got a head start I was gaining exp at a really good rate, and for several years I worked hard and never said no.
However I soon grew tired of working abroad so started looking for other jobs. I got offered a job at one of the top companies who deal with this software, but instead of taking the job I was counter offered a big boost in pay to match and the role of running the support.
Contracting has crossed my mind as the pay is good, but I do like being a permie and get to work from home 4 days a week.
What makes the pay good is the software is quite niche, unless you've been trained in a particular product you just won't have a clue how to install and configure it. Back in 2007 the reason my company took on 5 trainees was there wasn't many people in the job market with the correct skills.
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And recruitment agents. Most of them are useless, but it's always a good move to keep some of the decent ones sweet.
There is also the advantage that if you're good and they know they'll be able to place you in roles relatively easily they'll be falling over themselves to buy you lunches and beer
That's brilliant good to see your progression over the years
I hate saying it, but it's a case of "right time, right place" (luck) and also having a keen ear.
Wherever I go (workplaces that is) I tend to pick up on what the latest and greatest "must have skills" or otherwise known as "buzzwords" are, and I make sure that I get involved with whatever it is.
From "Agile"/"Scrum" to "multichannel ecommerce" "mobile apps" "near field communication" ...you get the picture.
This is vital in a BA/PM/Pre-Sales role I should imagine and to a much lesser extent developers (though they must keep their skillsets current). Unsure how it relates to traditional "IT support" as Ive never had an interest or involvement in it.
I tend to interview very well, since I make it very clear that I understand the "IT process" as a whole and explain my own methodology of doing things, making it clear that I'm flexible in working practises.
Never sell yourself short!
I was so depressed when I was 25. I was living in London, on 20k per year -working my arse off, and all my friends were on much more than me. I felt like I was never going to amount to anything - which is when I made myself a promise. I promised to try keep doubling my wages and to work less and get paid more to do it.
I very much doubt I can make any more than I do now, so the next step in the career is to try sustain this as long as possible, possibly into my 40's, and then hopefully be absorbed into a company as a perm at a more senior level.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2009
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- France, Alsace
I like some of my agents. You have to know what is bull and what isn't.
I think in c.4yrs from 17k to 125k isn't too bad. Especially when I move to France next month and pay 10% tax.
It's a combination of drive and confidence though, but so much drive and determination. I fought hard for all of these jobs and did as much as I could to prepare for each interview/meeting to make sure I had the best shot. Made some good choices/took some risks along the way.
I think in c.4yrs from 17k to 125k isn't too bad. Especially when I move to France next month and pay 10% tax.
It's a combination of drive and confidence though, but so much drive and determination. I fought hard for all of these jobs and did as much as I could to prepare for each interview/meeting to make sure I had the best shot. Made some good choices/took some risks along the way.