I'm not sure about that. I think it was just one of those things, a game that got a bit heated and then mayhem broke out. I'd be cautious to link it with any political dimension.
Egypt football match ends in riot - 73 dead so far!
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I'm not sure about that. I think it was just one of those things, a game that got a bit heated and then mayhem broke out. I'd be cautious to link it with any political dimension.
Soldato
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Surprised to see that it isn't concerning an England match!
Caporegime
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The recent political troubles in Egypt have certainly added to the catastrophic outcome of this incident. So much bad blood across Egypt, particularly from al-Ahly fans towards the security forces.
I think that because of the recent troubles it's easy, convenient even, to put the blame on politics but I fear that wouldn't be wise and not address the problems to do with security at the stadium.
Is there a political dimension? Possibly. Some people probably got involved because of political feelings but I imagine it started off as a football thing and escalated because of football. According to the Sky report, many died due to crushes and falling off the stadium rather than because they were 'the other side'.
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Why was the security so lax? Why did the riot police stand around and the president's security forces, who have had running battles with ah-Ahly fans on a political cause, take over so swiftly.
That is the question. And there could quite possibly be a very startling and uncomfortable answer.
That is the question. And there could quite possibly be a very startling and uncomfortable answer.
this is clearly more than football hooliganism. the entire middle east is in meltdown.
there is a political dimension, the security forces have been curbed back. People are demanding democracy, but it's not being given to them. The state is basically just ignoring the people's pleas.
From what I gather from the footage, it seems that there's a huge lack of police presence in the football match, and they are being curbed back "for their security". Because the police would be easy target for the protestors.
This is how governments control uprisings now, instead of fighting it head on, withdraw security forces, let people get angry and clash against each other. Eventually there will be anarchy and people will demand for more police measures.
Same thing happened in the London riots, while London was burning the police were huddled down the streets because it was "out of control" and didn't want to endanger their lives. Now people are calling for harsher punishments for youth offenders.
Same thing happend in the Iraq invasion, lack of troops for national building after the invasion, resulted in massive looting and then civil war because the coalition forces were simply too thin on the ground. The end result, they justified their presence in the country. If there was peace and calm after the fall of saddam, the Forces would immediately be told that the job is done and get asked to leave.
Exact same is happening in Egypt, the military government needs some sort of civil war, for people to start killing each other, and then before you know it there's massive calls by people for the dictatorial government to come and and quash everything.
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Mainly because football is a working class game. Wimbledon certainly is not a working class game, nor sport for that matter.
I'll quote what I said in the Football Stadia;
Soldato
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When I read the news this morning I was very surprised and shocked!!
I agree that almost all of the arab world seems to be in chaos. The political, social and economical unrests are just tipping the boiling point across the whole region.
Others may well disagree with me but I must say that middle eastern region has only known these things: Political dictatorship on political level, religious conservatism on the social level (lack of freedom for women and general intolerance towards anything not conforming with 'society') and lack of investment and innovation coupled with poor education on the economical level. Oh and ofcourse the very hot weather!!
All these factors have resulted in a region which is neither stable nor has any attraction for the investment to take place.
Caporegime
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ffs, they are now rioting against the security forces....... for the security forces having failed to prevent a riot.
Unbelievable, people who just want to riot find any excuse, it has nothing to do with football, and its partially political but only in so far as. The world supported the ridiculous uprising that was unsurprisingly always going to end up badly with the military in charge for so long "yeah, sure I'll take temporary control of the country for you, yeah, I'll give up power" /evil laughter follows.
THe fact is, they all decided to stand up and riot over poor economic conditions, it appeared to work, the world appeared to support violence = the answer stance.
That is the problem, for every 1 level headed person who had a grasp of what was really going on there were 9 people who didn't know what was going on, who were angry and who were looking for a fight.
The world told them, well done, and the 9 out of every 10 people are still looking for a fight.
Security forces can NEVER STOP A RIOT, its a complete fallacy, a smaller force can't and won't ever be able to prevent a problem like in that stadium. Complete dominating numbers would mean 60k fans, 80k security forces, even then it would be one hell of a fight. Security/police are a DETERRANT to put off all the people who would join in, but aren't starters, aren't the die hard violent people who actively start these things off.
Oh well, people die in a riot, first thing you do to either mourn the dead or think about what caused the problem....... riot in protest at a riot.
Unbelievable, people who just want to riot find any excuse, it has nothing to do with football, and its partially political but only in so far as. The world supported the ridiculous uprising that was unsurprisingly always going to end up badly with the military in charge for so long "yeah, sure I'll take temporary control of the country for you, yeah, I'll give up power" /evil laughter follows.
THe fact is, they all decided to stand up and riot over poor economic conditions, it appeared to work, the world appeared to support violence = the answer stance.
That is the problem, for every 1 level headed person who had a grasp of what was really going on there were 9 people who didn't know what was going on, who were angry and who were looking for a fight.
The world told them, well done, and the 9 out of every 10 people are still looking for a fight.
Security forces can NEVER STOP A RIOT, its a complete fallacy, a smaller force can't and won't ever be able to prevent a problem like in that stadium. Complete dominating numbers would mean 60k fans, 80k security forces, even then it would be one hell of a fight. Security/police are a DETERRANT to put off all the people who would join in, but aren't starters, aren't the die hard violent people who actively start these things off.
Oh well, people die in a riot, first thing you do to either mourn the dead or think about what caused the problem....... riot in protest at a riot.
What would you want people to do if they live under autocratic rule? Mubarak was a milittary dictator, the parliament was just a farce, it had no power, and power ultimately went to Mubarak, although he wore a suit and held the position of a President. He was largely in charge of the army, and alledgedly embezzled countless billions of dollars of money out of the country into swiss bank accounts.
Mubarak left, but the same military elite runs the country, and it's highly unlikely they will let go of power just because the people demand it.
Please understand the situation before making generalised statements.
Civil war is good for the miltary government, if there is a civil war its very easy for them to cling onto power, after all if the anger is turned against each other, they won't express any anger towards the government.
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Bit of a thread resurrection here.
I am working on an oil rig off the coast of Egypt (not that far from Port Said actually) and have been for several years. I was speaking to one of the painters yesterday and asked him why he had painted the Egyptian flag on his hard hat but had coloured the top part green instead of red. He explained that he was an Al Masry supporter and had substituted the red for green as green is the colour his team play in (Al Ahly play in red). He then proudly showed me the number 73 painted on the side of his hat and bragged that that was the number of Al Ahly fans they had killed. I suggested this was a bad thing to which he replied "No. Ahly same-same Israel" and spat on the ground. In other words, he despised Al Ahly supporters as much as he (along with a great many of his countrymen) despises Israelis. Enough to be happy to see them killed.
What I surmise from this is that, whilst there was a political element to this tragedy, there was also a fair amount of rabid hatred involved. There is a long history of trouble between the two clubs and I think the only reason this has never happened before is that these matches are usually heavily policed. It would seem that the reduction of security forces at the match and also claims that the few police and army people there were turning a blind eye to weapons being carried into the stadium played a big part in what went on there.
From what I hear from the locals out here, the military and police are desperate to hold on to as much power as they can and the suggestion is that they knew that, given the right conditions, something like this could well happen at this match. It is suggested that they did little or nothing to discourage it in an attempt to show the people what would happen if they took power away from the security forces.
I am working on an oil rig off the coast of Egypt (not that far from Port Said actually) and have been for several years. I was speaking to one of the painters yesterday and asked him why he had painted the Egyptian flag on his hard hat but had coloured the top part green instead of red. He explained that he was an Al Masry supporter and had substituted the red for green as green is the colour his team play in (Al Ahly play in red). He then proudly showed me the number 73 painted on the side of his hat and bragged that that was the number of Al Ahly fans they had killed. I suggested this was a bad thing to which he replied "No. Ahly same-same Israel" and spat on the ground. In other words, he despised Al Ahly supporters as much as he (along with a great many of his countrymen) despises Israelis. Enough to be happy to see them killed.
What I surmise from this is that, whilst there was a political element to this tragedy, there was also a fair amount of rabid hatred involved. There is a long history of trouble between the two clubs and I think the only reason this has never happened before is that these matches are usually heavily policed. It would seem that the reduction of security forces at the match and also claims that the few police and army people there were turning a blind eye to weapons being carried into the stadium played a big part in what went on there.
From what I hear from the locals out here, the military and police are desperate to hold on to as much power as they can and the suggestion is that they knew that, given the right conditions, something like this could well happen at this match. It is suggested that they did little or nothing to discourage it in an attempt to show the people what would happen if they took power away from the security forces.