*****Official Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread*****

[Tombstone]

I think instancing has its place in a MMO, specifically the Raid side of it. Otherwise you have the problem of the biggest Guild on the server having a lockdown on the encounter until they have finished and moved on (hi pre PoP EQ).

I used to love a proper open world Dungeon crawl on a PvP server though, I miss those aspects

I can see the logic of that yes, for raids I could understand the use of some form of instancing. For dungeons though I have always preferred the shared dungeons , like in Daoc for example. It was awesome to just be one group of many within the dungeons (not least because when your group wiped you could send a whisper to someone nearby and get their healer to come over and res your group ) , never been a big fan of these instanced, just for you, dungeons.

 

[AndyCr15]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/EA-re...NhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25zBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3?x=0

Got to love all the people in this thread giving completely the wrong impression

Wow, 300,000 didn't make it into the paid subscription. Is that normal? Sounds bad to me?

 

[Tombstone]

Wow, 300,000 didn't make it into the paid subscription. Is that normal? Sounds bad to me?

I thought I remember reading some years ago a well known MMO developer saying that on average you'd expect to lose 30% of the players after the free time was up.

 

[elmarko]

I have little time for complaints about levelling direction in sandboxes, I just put that down to the ridiculously poor imagination that so many gamers have, if they arent told what to do and when to do it their brain just shuts down, heaven forbid that they should use their imagination and set their own goals. Good god, its even too much for some of them to explore a land without being told precisely where to go by some radar indicator these days.

On the issue of something to give, thats simple for me, I would easily give up the high definition graphics. I would rather the huge scale PvP of Daoc (the best factional PvP MMO to date imo) and a sandbox world than have shiny bump mapped high res textures, but again I accept that the masses tend to be more impressed by looks than depth.

I've only ever know 2 sandbox games anyway UO & EvE which I played extensively.

The problem is, I don't think story & sandbox are compatible - sandbox games do not have a story/plot which is worth it's weight.

What's needed is a dynamic story creation system for a sandbox game to really progress the genre - as it's either kiddy glove rail-shooters or empty sandboxes with no toys.

This may take some time, but as soon as we can get a computer to generate a realistic voice with emotional tones, automated quest/story creation (based on a vast amount of variables with additional DEV input) - to be put into a complex sandbox player driven world.

I'd give it 20 years till we get that.

 

[Teaf]

Yeah, keeping 85% of your initial player base after the first month is actually quite impressive.

 

[LateX'Dog]

Wow, 300,000 didn't make it into the paid subscription. Is that normal? Sounds bad to me?

No, thats very very good.

 

[LateX'Dog]

I have little time for complaints about levelling direction in sandboxes, I just put that down to the ridiculously poor imagination that so many gamers have, if they arent told what to do and when to do it their brain just shuts down, heaven forbid that they should use their imagination and set their own goals. Good god, its even too much for some of them to explore a land without being told precisely where to go by some radar indicator these days.

While its nice to have imagination, its not fun to run out and kill 10,000 deers just because you need the xp.

Levelling without a cause is incredibly boring. People need a reason to kill 30 of the same mob. Otherwise it'll be branded as a Asian grindfest MMO.

When our out of game lives are so directed and we are so use to this, why wouldn't people expect the same in their game?

 

[Tombstone]

While its nice to have imagination, its not fun to run out and kill 10,000 deers just because you need the xp.

Levelling without a cause is incredibly boring. People need a reason to kill 30 of the same mob. Otherwise it'll be branded as a Asian grindfest MMO.

When our out of game lives are so directed and we are so use to this, why wouldn't people expect the same in their game?

I think it boils down to gamer mentality. Take UO for example, at no point during the 4 years that I played UO did I sit and grind 10,000 deers (admittedly it was a skill based game rather than a level based game) I played the game, followed the elaborate story line of my character and my skills raised as I played and as my character lived his daily life as normal. People need a reason to kill 30 of the same mob because people lack the imagination to do anything other than watch their stats.

 

[Tombstone]

I've only ever know 2 sandbox games anyway UO & EvE which I played extensively.

The problem is, I don't think story & sandbox are compatible - sandbox games do not have a story/plot which is worth it's weight.

What's needed is a dynamic story creation system for a sandbox game to really progress the genre - as it's either kiddy glove rail-shooters or empty sandboxes with no toys.

This may take some time, but as soon as we can get a computer to generate a realistic voice with emotional tones, automated quest/story creation (based on a vast amount of variables with additional DEV input) - to be put into a complex sandbox player driven world.

I'd give it 20 years till we get that.

I think you are kind of right there regarding story and sandbox, the way I see it a sandbox should provide the world, the lore and the tools for you to create your character and his/her story, which you then play. What your character does at any time is down to you the player and how you have constructed your characters own story. As an example, one of my UO characters had an aversion to magic due to his fathers murder and as such that character refused to use any magic or any magically enhanced weaponry or armour during all the years I played. Another trait of his due to his backstory was a refusal to use any bladed or cutting weaponry, so maces and mauls etc were his weaponry.

 

[LateX'Dog]

People need a reason to kill 30 of the same mob because people lack the imagination to do anything other than watch their stats.

But isnt that what fundamentally makes a MMO a MMO?

People in real life and in game are obsessed with having something better then everyone else. So the stat based meta game is also a key part of the MMO.

Would people still play WoW if everyone was naked and raid loot was just temporary stat increases? Of course they would, because people play for pixels.

The genre of MMO has changed since UO, UO was what future MMO's should be, it just lacked the direction people require.

UO + directed levelling experience to explain the story and how to play the game + instanced raids and maybe open world pvp/instanced pvp is where we are heading.

People want the ability to make things in game, they want to enjoy a rich story in the game and they want to come together as a community and achieve goals. This is the way the industry is heading.

 

[Tombstone]

But isnt that what fundamentally makes a MMO a MMO?

People in real life and in game are obsessed with having something better then everyone else. So the stat based meta game is also a key part of the MMO.

Would people still play WoW if everyone was naked and raid loot was just temporary stat increases? Of course they would, because people play for pixels.

The genre of MMO has changed since UO, UO was what future MMO's should be, it just lacked the direction people require.

UO + directed levelling experience to explain the story and how to play the game + instanced raids and maybe open world pvp/instanced pvp is where we are heading.

People want the ability to make things in game, they want to enjoy a rich story in the game and they want to come together as a community and achieve goals. This is the way the industry is heading.

I guess it just comes down to what people think an MMO is. You ask isnt that what makes an MMO an MMO. Well for me, an MMO is a world that my character can exist in and tell their story (indeed I know of one player in UO on the server I was on who became a very well known player/character indeed, shard famous even, that particular character never fought, either against players or AI mobs, was not part of her characters story and character traits), I myself have never been one for stat watching or getting excited about a +3 bonus to orc slicing on my sword, telling/"living" through a story of my creation is my interest.

I'm a somewhat different person to the ones you describe though, for example, in real life I am not obsessed with having something better than everyone else, really couldnt care less what I have compared to everyone else to be honest, just not a factor in my life. So perhaps my MMO gaming style reflects that.

 

[ShadowMan]

You could join TDR on that server. It's made up of people from here, not large at all, but happy to help where I/we can.

Thanks will have a look later. I assume that the OP is still valid for signing up?

 

[Stusteel]

Thanks will have a look later. I assume that the OP is still valid for signing up?

Yup, just do a search for tdr when you are in game and ask for an invite.

 

[LateX'Dog]

I guess it just comes down to what people think an MMO is. You ask isnt that what makes an MMO an MMO. Well for me, an MMO is a world that my character can exist in and tells a story (indeed I know of one player in UO on the server I was on who became a very well known player/character indeed, shard famous even, that particular character never fought, either against players or AI mobs, was not part of her characters story and character traits.

What you describe here and above in your other post is basically role play. Your character wasn't constrained by the technical limitations of not being able to use sharp weapons or magic, you made that up, hence it becomes role play. So essentially are you looking for a game that can provide you with the role play experience you got in UO?

The vast majority of MMO gamers are not role players and this is easy to see via the lack of role player servers against other types of servers.

The popularity of WoW shows that the vast majority of MMO gamers prefer a directed levelling and gaming experience. And for a company to aim for a smaller market is either financial suicide or it'll be a lower budget game, which generally means a lower quality game

I'm a somewhat different person to the ones you describe though, for example, in real life I am not obsessed with having something better than everyone else, really couldnt care less what I have compared to everyone else to be honest, just not a factor in my life. So perhaps my MMO gaming style reflects that.

I completely agree with you, i couldn't care less what car i drive, it gets me from a to b, but you can see the vast majority of car drivers have the bigger posher cars to "show of" essentially. And if your parents are them parents and children are a reflection of there parents, you should expect the vast majority of "new age" MMO gamers will be like that.

 

[Tombstone]

What you describe here and above in your other post is basically role play. Your character wasn't constrained by the technical limitations of not being able to use sharp weapons or magic, you made that up, hence it becomes role play. So essentially are you looking for a game that can provide you with the role play experience you got in UO?

Yeah thats me , I'm a roleplayer

The vast majority of MMO gamers are not role players and this is easy to see via the lack of role player servers against other types of servers.

The popularity of WoW shows that the vast majority of MMO gamers prefer a directed levelling and gaming experience. And for a company to aim for a smaller market is either financial suicide or it'll be a lower budget game, which generally means a lower quality game

Oh dont get me wrong, I know that my desires and wants for an MMO do not match the accepted "norm" for MMO gamers, I am talking about MMOs only from my personal views and wants, rather than for the general crowd. To be honest, on the whole, MMOs have been going in the wrong direction for me since UO due to precisely the reasons and preferences you mention there.

 

[CHokKA]

No, thats very very good.

Yeah but how many of the people that stayed, just did so for the Founder title? MMO gamers these days want all the achievements and I bet a lot subbed just for the lame title

 

[LateX'Dog]

Yeah but how many of the people that stayed, just did so for the Founder title? MMO gamers these days want all the achievements and I bet a lot subbed just for the lame title

And how many of the people who left, followed the Shepard?

 

[CHokKA]

...(indeed I know of one player in UO on the server I was on who became a very well known player/character indeed, shard famous even, that particular character never fought, either against players or AI mobs, was not part of her characters story and character traits)...

What shard and person was this Tombstone? I knew of two players on Europa who were like this. Yves St Laurent, and Lord Ulysses, they were pure crafter characters and all they ever did was craft and sell in their shop and in Britain outside the northern Blacksmith shop. Such awesome times

 

[elmarko]

Tbh I want both, sandbox & a story - it's beyond the ability of the time - but it provides the benefits of both.

A real MMO needs.

1 = No levels.
2 = No set factions.
3 = All players on one server.
4 = A fully player driven economy.

The only game to do that so far is EvE.

A new fantasy/sci-fi MMO could theoretically have the best aspects of the story-driven MMO & the sandbox.

What would be interesting would if MMO's increased in popularity - they would employ teams of "Story/actors" to actually role-play as actors in the gaming world - as quest givers, bosses & leaders - it would add an amazing dynamic but as I said - many many years away for that kind of thing.

 

[CHokKA]

Tbh I want both, sandbox & a story - it's beyond the ability of the time - but it provides the benefits of both.

A real MMO needs.

1 = No levels.
2 = No set factions.
3 = All players on one server.
4 = A fully player driven economy.

The only game to do that so far is EvE.

A new fantasy/sci-fi MMO could theoretically have the best aspects of the story-driven MMO & the sandbox.

What would be interesting would if MMO's increased in popularity - they would employ teams of "Story/actors" to actually role-play as actors in the gaming world - as quest givers, bosses & leaders - it would add an amazing dynamic but as I said - many many years away for that kind of thing.

Erm with the exception of point 3, UO had all of this.