*****Official Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread*****

citizenx13 said:
Well would you not say good raiding guilds are down to skill as well? So why not remove gear and stats all together? Make it all about skill? Make the reward not a new armour set but the kill?
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Now That ! I would love. One of the things I always loved about UO was the way that there was comparatively little difference in gear. There were no "blues", no "purples", no "epics", no +75 to strength items. Always found it a bit odd that there is this world with monsters and a population, but there were millions of these enchanted items just laying around, would have thought all the monsters would be killed off hundreds of years ago considering all these boosting items. Makes you wonder if anyone in the worlds are normal people or all souped up legendary warriors. (mind you, having said that, given that everyone can res , it does make you wonder who is buried in all these in game graveyards :p)


citizenx13 said:
You get rewards, gear and perks from raiding and that is why you do it no?
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Most people probably yes, not me though, I play because its fun. In fact anyone who has grouped with me in an MMO for the last 15 years will notice that the vast majority of the time I dont even bother to roll for loot. Unless its a particularly amusing looking piece of clothing, like the frogs head mask in EQ or the broomstick in daoc (think it was daoc)(both actually stat less items anyway)
 
I can't wait, but it does not go far enough .

All PVP rewards should be visual - nothing more, empty orange gear sets.
All players should get a boost to put them at roughly equal stat levels (boost system)
Gear should mean nothing in PVP.

Then finally, the people who are high ranked, we can genuinely respect as being good players & we can laugh at the bad ones (as they won't have any excuses for losing).

Sounds like a good plan to me :P
 
citizenx13 said:
Well would you not say good raiding guilds are down to skill as well? So why not remove gear and stats all together? Make it all about skill? Make the reward not a new armour set but the kill?

I am not saying that I want to be un-killable; all I say is let there be some sort of distinction between a pvp player and a hard core raider. let there be something I can aim for in pvp like you have something to aim for in raids.

10% is not really all that huuuge and it does not come in one day hell I don’t mind if its 5%, hell take that away just don’t let a lvl 50 in greens that has not dedicated any time be on the same level as me make him work for it, I enjoy PvP it is fun and if I open 20 bags and get 8 sets of bracers I already have I am not bummed I carry on having fun and look forward to my next reward

I will loose interest really quickly if some one who has the ability to dedicate 5 days a week to raiding is lucky and has a full set of the best pve gear comes along and beats me just because he has better stats than me, I am not hard core I have other priorities but I like the fact that if I spend time at something I can get rewarded with that edge, I don’t mind starting at the bottom and working my way up slowly acquiring gear that is the fun.

You get rewards, gear and perks from raiding and that is why you do it no? in PvP after a month you hit a ceiling and cant get better gear so it is obtainable by everyone not just those who raid 3-5 times a week will be the only ones that can obtain the best PvE gear.

I am a casual player who can’t be online hours on end at pre-dedicated times, we all play this game to get rewards.
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In PvE, you cannot just simply claim "skill" in a scenario where NPC's have a set animation/rotation that is simply repeated every time you fight them. Removing stats from both PvP and PvE and making them skill points is perfectly fine with me.

Difference between PvP and PvE is that PvP is against another player, where things are random. You don't know what they're going to do hence you have to think more and play "skilfully" as in PvE it's just pretty much knowing what's going to happen and just standing there and doing it - PvE is so dumbed down and simple even 2 year old can do it.

You talk about how a PvE geared guy with "more stats" shouldn't beat you, yet you then say that because you have better "gear and stats" that you should have a 10% advantage? Which is it?

WAR you could happily PvP in PvE sets. Just because you play PvP 90% of your time opposed to someone playing PvP 10% of theirs - regardless off PvP/PvE gear - the difference should be minimal - only advantage should be the knowledge/experience.

This is why to me, PvP has become such a set back in MMOs. No risk/reward features any more. It's just simply dumbed down to who has most time spent playing.
 
Swifty55 said:
Difference between PvP and PvE is that PvP is against another player, where things are random. You don't know what they're going to do hence you have to think more and play "skilfully" as in PvE it's just pretty much knowing what's going to happen and just standing there and doing it - PvE is so dumbed down and simple even 2 year old can do it.
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And this is exactly why the 0.8s delay on mortar strike for Troopers is a big deal in PvP. I have a level 20 Commando and I have PvPed with him quite a bit, and to be honest I don't even bother using mortar strike anymore. It's fine as an opener in a PvE fight because you can start casting it in a static situation, prior to engaging mobs as they just stand there whilst you're out of aggro range. There's no way that you can easily replicate that in a PvP because you'll never get most players to stand in the damage zone for long enough, as in most PvP encounters the enemy is already moving.

I am really intrigued to see how they implement the proposed gear changes in PvP. I hope that they actually intend on doing so, rather than just blowing hot air about it with no intention of actually doing it.

Also, on a completely different topic, ChrisJSY, what helicopter game is it that you're playing in your YouTube videos? I saw them in your other vids after watching your trooper BH video earlier and would love to play a good helicopter sim.
 
RDM said:
SWG let you live in the Star Wars universe but didn't let you live the Star Wars movies, terrible design ideas from the get go.
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That was never the games idea and it was never marketed as such. It wouldn't have been set in the time period it was, half more than half of the professions it did, nor be as in depth as it was if it just wanted you to make a Jedi and run around hitting things with a sabre.

It was designed so you did live in the universe, and within reason, do the things you wanted.

If you wanted to play a Jedi at the time, there were the Kyle Katarn series of games to cater to that.
 
scritchyrat said:
That was never the games idea and it was never marketed as such. It wouldn't have been set in the time period it was, half more than half of the professions it did, nor be as in depth as it was if it just wanted you to make a Jedi and run around hitting things with a sabre.
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Exactly, SWG was marketed as having your own saga in the Star Wars Universe, not relive the events of the movie. The game was set after the events of A New Hope, where the Jedi numbers were worryingly low, and this was the idea behind making the Jedi creation so indepth and difficult. The idea was that at that time, Vader was actively hunting down all the Jedi in the galaxy and killing them off, so thus the Jedi were underground, laying low. It makes sense to not have thousands of Jedi running around in the game, which is why I felt their decision to not make it a starter character was actually an incredibly clever idea. There was never a point where I felt the game lacked Jedi either. In fact, the overpopulation of Jedi made me leave the game after everyone unlocked their force slots, because for a lot of people that was all they ended up doing. I remember that I'd log in and ask people if they wanted to do stuff, and most of the replies I would get were "I'm just raising my skill in X". I never bothered trying to unlock a force slot, I was more than happy with my Teras Kasi Master / Master Doc template, and never changed away from that either.
 
Actually cannot wait. I can't decide which class to play first though. I'm looking at either a Jedi Shadow or Sith Marauder. Any recommendations? :)
 
Swifty55 said:
In PvE, you cannot just simply claim "skill" in a scenario where NPC's have a set animation/rotation that is simply repeated every time you fight them. Removing stats from both PvP and PvE and making them skill points is perfectly fine with me.

Difference between PvP and PvE is that PvP is against another player, where things are random. You don't know what they're going to do hence you have to think more and play "skilfully" as in PvE it's just pretty much knowing what's going to happen and just standing there and doing it - PvE is so dumbed down and simple even 2 year old can do it.

You talk about how a PvE geared guy with "more stats" shouldn't beat you, yet you then say that because you have better "gear and stats" that you should have a 10% advantage? Which is it?

WAR you could happily PvP in PvE sets. Just because you play PvP 90% of your time opposed to someone playing PvP 10% of theirs - regardless off PvP/PvE gear - the difference should be minimal - only advantage should be the knowledge/experience.

This is why to me, PvP has become such a set back in MMOs. No risk/reward features any more. It's just simply dumbed down to who has most time spent playing.
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I am slowly getting won over by the "equal" argument as long as there is something to look forward to, some reward at the end of the day and when PvP is my arena of my choosing that I can be able to be distinguished by that fact, have some sort of perks, I would love to Raid but I am unable to due to real life commitments, and I like to play for a reward and to have some sort of "privileges" many of you might not agree but I am only human and putting in hours of time with no reward sort of looks well unrewarding.

sometimes the only thing that lets me survive against a Smuggler/IA for e.g. is my gear, not because I am a bad player its because my release in on CD I have no shields and he blasts me to 10% in 4 seconds while I am stunned, and I can only get out of stun every 2 minutes he can vanish and re-stun me every few seconds, now do I loose there because I am a unskilled player?
the gear I acquired gave me a buffer, if he is as well geared as me ok but if every singe one can do that to me? You will have 90% smugglers playing.

I know everyone so far is in contrast to my view and you guys have some valid points but pvp will NEVER be balanced and I will not roll a class just because it overpowered.

So the gear perks have their place I say, and let people work for them it will not take years or months, a week or two and you are fully perked, I would like to see pvp with some sort of progression/ladder to climb. Reward me for the time spent in there in some way
 
RDM said:
It was a terrible idea full stop. Putting aside the awful unlocking requirements (yeah you need to max some professions, but we aren't going to tell you which ones and they will be different for each character) they basically restricted one of the iconic archetypes in the SW universe to hardcore players. It would be like doing a Mechwarrior MMO but not letting you play a Mech pilot...

SWG let you live in the Star Wars universe but didn't let you live the Star Wars movies, terrible design ideas from the get go.
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Got to disagree with you there. I guess its just about the type of player you want to be. For me an MMORPG is about living the movie, being part of the fantastic SW universe, starting as a low level, working your way up, hanging out in cantinas for a reason, enjoying the player interaction, getting player housing, exploring. SWG did that in spades, and Jedi were rare so when you saw one it was literally 'wow'. Yeah it was nigh on impossible to be one, yeah you had to put in stupid hours, yeah I knew I never could be bothered, but when you saw someone who had, that was a hardcore player, and they had been rewarded and were recognised for being a hardcore player whilst still adding to the lore of the game, not with stupid spangly outfits that looked like a pizza explosion, but with power.

In SWTOR Jedi is a character option, reduced to the level of choosing the colour of your eyes. Sith and Jedi are everywhere, dying to troopers or bounty hunters, being eaten by large lizards, spamming lightning and throwing rocks like kids throw toys. They make up half the known universe, and are played by two-thirds of the players. There is nothing special about being a Jedi, in fact, when there’s thousands of you, it’s a bit lame tbh. thats what really annoyed me about this, it made jedi pedestrian! Its jar Jar binks all over again.

But again, I guess its just what style of game you wanted to play.
 
Newbie007 said:
You will never have a class blance in PvP in a PvE centric MMO.
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Well, it's impossible to balance 1v1 - but one method I kinda like the idea of is the nemesis system.

Each class is very vulnerable to one opposing specific class, meaning that if everybody bundles into one class - the opposing class becomes more played to counteract it.

But I agree, balance is almost impossible - not having static classes is another method - (diverse classes which can learn other classes abilities instead of fixed trooper/sith/bounty hunter style classes).
 
Sleepless said:
Got to disagree with you there. I guess its just about the type of player you want to be. For me an MMORPG is about living the movie, being part of the fantastic SW universe, starting as a low level, working your way up, hanging out in cantinas for a reason, enjoying the player interaction, getting player housing, exploring. SWG did that in spades, and Jedi were rare so when you saw one it was literally 'wow'. Yeah it was nigh on impossible to be one, yeah you had to put in stupid hours, yeah I knew I never could be bothered, but when you saw someone who had, that was a hardcore player, and they had been rewarded and were recognised for being a hardcore player whilst still adding to the lore of the game, not with stupid spangly outfits that looked like a pizza explosion, but with power.
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It was so much fun. I never saw playing a non-jedi being a problem. There were so many professions that I think everyone would find at least a couple that they really liked. SWG to me was the definition of massively multiplayer.
 
citizenx13 said:
This discussion is about balance at the end of the day is it not? so if pvp will never be balanced sooo why bother "balancing" the gear lol :cool:
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Bring it down to its base level as it were, and leave it alone in future (which is what I'm assuming they are doing with the gear degradation).

Once you start messing around with class mechanics / damage with PvP in mind, you impact the PvE side of things, and always mess this up. You then get into the nerf bat/buff cycle to classes and take up valuable dev time trying to 'balance' which can be used on the PvE side of things, you know the core aspect of ToR..

If it's meangful PvP you came to the game for, you've made an error. Go find a PvP title :)
This isn't meant to sound harsh by the way, but if other successful MMO's that have been around for a long time haven't managed to find a balance, learn from their mistakes. PvP will only ever be balanced if its designed from the ground up to be that way.
 
Could not see anyone from TDR on last night but managed to finish a heroic in a random group. Did not realise that Operatives are so squishy!

I am used to playing high armour chars (Main Tank in WoW raiding guild or BS and bigger in EVE) and forgot to run away! Oops.

Anyone else in a Frostclaw Empire guild happy to take on a noob for levelling and running groups please let me know. :)
 
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