VW Longlife Servicing good/bad?

[[TW]Fox]

Like it or not, manufacturers do what makes them money. I am reasonably sure that changing engine oil every 10-12k miles will, long term, be better for an engine than one which has had 25k miles between changes.

Most long life plans end up with a service at between 13 and 20k depending on driving. Not many (though I admit some) go beyond this routinely really?

Are you planning on ignoring the service requirements your iDrive informs you of and just doing it every 10k or something?

 

[Gaygle]

Most long life plans end up with a service at between 13 and 20k depending on driving. Not many (though I admit some) go beyond this routinely really?

Oh i wouldn't mind if it was only about 15k miles, but my mums iDrive is telling her she's got to get her car serviced in 21k miles or in March 2013. Bearing in mind she's already done 7k miles and bought it in March 2011. So, according to BMW, her car would be "fine" without a service for 28k miles, which i absolutely don't agreed with. With my almost none existent knowledge of the chemistry of motor oil, i just don't think oil, with metal engine filings in it and all sorts of contaminants, should be allowed to go around an already fragile engine like the N53 or N54 for nearly 30,000 miles.

Are you planning on ignoring the service requirements your iDrive informs you of and just doing it every 10k or something?

I haven't really decided yet, and i won't have to for quite a while. I had a service at 32k and it's only don 36k now. iDrive is saying service is due in May (because i think that'll be 2 years since the last one).

After this though, i was either thinking about getting an oil change at National and giving them a genuine BMW oil filter in between my services at BMW, or on the safer side, just taking it into the dealers, and giving them a £110 for the oil change every 10-12k miles.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Oh i wouldn't mind if it was only about 15k miles, but my mums iDrive is telling her she's got to get her car serviced in 21k miles or in May 2013. Bearing in mind she's already done 7k miles and bought it in May 2011. So, according to BMW, her car would be "fine" without a service for 28k miles, which i absolutely don't agreed with. With my almost none existent knowledge of the chemistry of motor oil, i just don't think oil, with metal engine filings in it and all sorts of contaminants, should be allowed to go around an already fragile engine like the N53 or N54 for nearly 30,000 miles.

What car has she got? I've never seen a petrol BMW with such long intervals between services - I just went and checked the N53 engined car on the drive and thats showing an oil change required in 15k miles having had one about 500 miles previously so, similar to the gaps between services on the E46/E39 - 15k miles as a base, adjusted up or down between 10k and 20k depending on driving style.

Has she really got an N53 engined car showing 30k oil change intervals?

After this though, i was either thinking about getting an oil change at National and giving them a genuine BMW oil filter in between my services at BMW, or on the safer side, just taking it into the dealers, and giving them a £110 for the oil change every 10-12k miles.

I'm really not sure I see the point. Your 330i for example I guarantee wasn't serviced between proper services and it was fine until 10 years old..

 

[Gaygle]

What car has she got? I've never seen a petrol BMW with such long intervals between services - I just went and checked the N53 engined car on the drive and thats showing an oil change required in 15k miles having had one about 500 miles previously so, similar to the gaps between services on the E46/E39 - 15k miles as a base, adjusted up or down between 10k and 20k depending on driving style.

Has she really got an N53 engined car showing 30k oil change intervals?

It's a 2009 325i N53. Ok, i will double check. But when i checked it last week i was shocked as i thought she was going to need to get it done when i got mine done in May. Couldn't believe it said she still had another 21k to go and March 2013 before it needed servicing!

Like i said, i'm going to feel like a moron if i've misread it, but this is what i remember.

I'm really not sure I see the point. Your 330i for example I guarantee wasn't serviced between proper services and it was fine until 10 years old..

Most services on my 330i had been done between 5-9k miles and every year. This was clearly because whoever owned it only did these mileages and just got it serviced once a year.

It only had 54k miles on and was 7.5 years old when i got it.

Also, i don't need to tell you that the M54 was a much tougher engine than these newer DI ones are and I just think, for the sake of £35 quid, you could get an oil service with proper Castrol oil, a Bosch filter and safe guard yourself against any oil related failures. Especially turbo engines, which i understand heat the oil more and break it down.....or something?

Even if it doesn't prevent direct failures like the turbos, it may stop the engine coking up over time and losing power. It may stop the engine from drinking oil in the future etc etc

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's a 2009 325i N53. Ok, i will double check. But when i checked it last week i was shocked as i thought she was going to need to get it done when i got mine done in May. Couldn't believe it said she still had another 21k to go and March 2013 before it needed servicing!

Like i said, i'm going to feel like a moron if i've misread it, but this is what i remember.

It doesnt give you a date for oil, sure you didnt find the Vehicle Check by mistake?

Most services on my 330i had been done between 5-9k miles and every year. This was clearly because whoever owned it only did these mileages and just got it serviced once a year.

Well then thats very atypical. The vast majority of M54's are now well over 100k and have followed the variable servicing.

Also, i don't need to tell you that the M54 was a much tougher engine than these newer DI ones are and I just think, for the sake of £35 quid, you could get an oil service with proper Castrol oil, a Bosch filter and safe guard yourself against any oil related failures.

Surely the issues that plague the DI engines are nothing to do with oil? I mean oil wont have anything to do with your HPFP or the high pressure injectors?

 

[Gaygle]

It doesnt give you a date for oil, sure you didnt find the Vehicle Check by mistake?

I checked all parts of the Service menu, must be March 2013 for the vehicle check, and 21,000miles for the oil. I'll double check.

Surely the issues that plague the DI engines are nothing to do with oil? I mean oil wont have anything to do with your HPFP or the high pressure injectors?

You're right, apologies, i meant these new DI engines, not referring to the actual DI, just referring to the efficiency driven line of engines that are in production these days. Things like the oil ventilation valves get blocked and i'm sure there are many parts of the engine that would benefit from clean, pure oil as opposed to oil that has been subjected to God knows how many hot/cool cycles, harsh winters, hot summers etc etc.

Obviously, there is also the turbo chargers which depend massively on oil for their correct and continued function. And since turbo chargers are the way pretty much every new engine is going, having used oil going around for longer than necessary doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

IMO, the Longlife service plans are NOT for the benefit of the engines. They are for the benefit of other things involved in running a car company - politics, sales and the environment.

 

[[TW]Fox]

IMO, the Longlife service plans are NOT for the benefit of the engines. They are for the benefit of other things involved in running a car company - politics, sales and the environment.

It's difficult to draw long term information from the newer engines but can you find any 100k mile M54 powered cars where the fact it needed servicing only after 15-20k miles hasn't been of benefit to the owner?

In days gone by a 100,000 mile car would have required 10 services over that distance!

 

[Dangerous Dave]

It's difficult to draw long term information from the newer engines but can you find any 100k mile M54 powered cars where the fact it needed servicing only after 15-20k miles hasn't been of benefit to the owner?

In days gone by a 100,000 mile car would have required 10 services over that distance!

Does the BMW manual not mention something about more oil changes in certain circumstances ? I have a vague memory of you mentioning this when you attempted to get an oil change carried out by National but decided against it in the end.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Yes, it says that if you cover significantly less than 6000 miles per year, you should have the oil changed after 2 years. ie, it doesnt say you should bring forward servicing (so if you were due an Inspetion 2 in 15k and you cover 2k a year, you dont do it after 4k) but that you should get the oil changed.

But 2 years counts as 'long life' to me still..

 

[Firestar_3x]

And you can demonstrate categorically that was purely caused by long-life servicing?

If Matt can't then I can.

My 1.8T broke down with 84k ish on the clock due to a blocked oil pickup, the car had been serviced from new at a several different VW main dealers and it was on the long life service plan, the german VW main dealer who i tasked with fixing the car told me that long life servicing and 1.8T's don't go hand in hand due to the fact the turbo is renowned for creating little hard pellets of burnt oil which clog the pickup, the best way of avoiding this is to switch to the fixed 10k service plan, which i did.

Car is now on 145k and i've inspected the pickup with a camera and it has no signs of blockage.

Conclusion, changing the oil more often is beneficial.

 

[monkey_boy]

I'm just confused as to how everyone appears to know better than the manufacturers themselves. I mean surely there is a reason why people think this, is there some sort of evidence the manufacturers refuse to acknowledge?

Interesting point Fox. Does this apply to the 'all diesels will have DMF and injector failure' mantra?

 

[Simon]

Difficult one for me to comment on to be honest. 504 oils should be used on Fsi engines, 507 oils should be used on DPF diesels.

We have to remember people on car forums are a niche audience, most people want to avoid car servicing hence the development of longlife intervals and high quality oils which have millions spent on developing.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Interesting point Fox. Does this apply to the 'all diesels will have DMF and injector failure' mantra?

Not sure I follow you? How is the known reliability concerns of complex turbodiesels related to people thinking they should change oil more frequently?

 

[monkey_boy]

People on internet forums saying that something happens in an 'it's a dead cert' kind of way. I mean surely there is a reason people think this, is there evidence of something that manufacturers are refusing to acknowledge?

 

[[TW]Fox]

It pretty much is a 'dead cert' but the difference is that as most people do not own a car for, say, 100k miles, there will be plenty of people who trade out of a car before it suffers the problem or buy into it after it's had it repaired, who will then say they never go wrong.

I don't know anyone with, say, a Mondeo TDCi who hasn't had some sort of issue with the injectors, DMF or Turbo. A friend of mine in Ireland had all 3 of them on his, poor chap!

It's a really difficult situation becuase you can only half blame the manufacturers. They've had all this legislation forced upon them with no choice - they MUST meet the requirements to sell cars in Europe so they've had to develop ways to do this very quickly. These methods are very complex and its inevitable they'll go wrong.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Our complex I-CDTI has been bulletproof (Bar the VSA) and that's on over 100k with one owner.

 

[[TW]Fox]

There we have it guys, sample size of 1, diesels are bulletproof. I'm off to trade for a 530d

 

[Firestar_3x]

Proof indeed.....

 

[Dangerous Dave]

There we have it guys, sample size of 1, diesels are bulletproof. I'm off to trade for a 530d

It would be interesting to see what the failure rates actually are. I wouldn't be surprised if modern petrols and diesels have a similair failure rate, as they now all share similair technology with direct injection, DMFs(with plenty of low down torque from the turbo petrols to break them), turbos and high pressure fuel pumps. The diesels might even have an advantage as they have had a longer run with the technology.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The direct injection high pressure fuel pump fitted cars I'm most interested in appear to be at least as unreliable as the diesels, so you are right.

When we refer to petrol being less hassle we are referring to conventional injection engines.