The *Official* Eve Online Thread
- Thread starter Wyrdo
- Start date
Associate
- Joined
- 19 Aug 2011
- Posts
- 871
I've got a question.
I just managed to get tech 2 small pulse turrets. I've heard people raving about scorch so I picked some up by my ship (navy slicer) does more damage with the normal multifrequencies than the scorch crystals. The standard MF S is only 1 damage more, but taking into account all my bonuses, it works out about 10% of my DPS difference.
What am I missing? Am I better off going for a faction MF?
Edit: The conflags are a big step up in damage though, I'm gonna try them out. My navy slicer should do some mean damage with them.
I just managed to get tech 2 small pulse turrets. I've heard people raving about scorch so I picked some up by my ship (navy slicer) does more damage with the normal multifrequencies than the scorch crystals. The standard MF S is only 1 damage more, but taking into account all my bonuses, it works out about 10% of my DPS difference.
What am I missing? Am I better off going for a faction MF?
Edit: The conflags are a big step up in damage though, I'm gonna try them out. My navy slicer should do some mean damage with them.
Last edited:
Damage isn't the only stat, check out your optimal range
Conflag is basically the T2 multifrequency, while Scorch is the T2 Radio.
Associate
- Joined
- 19 Aug 2011
- Posts
- 871
I understand that, but being in a frigate means range is negligable to me. Both keep me within the 10km range of small webifiers (the most dangerous thing to my setup) so I'm not bothered either way. It just seems strange that people rave so much about them.
The damage is a significant difference too. I'm at almost 130dps with conflags, the scorchs give me about 90. Even the standard MFs give me 102. My slicer is a complete damage ship though (I get +25% damage per frig level, which is only 4 atm) so I'm sure that adds to the difference but still, it seems mad to have that much difference.
The damage is a significant difference too. I'm at almost 130dps with conflags, the scorchs give me about 90. Even the standard MFs give me 102. My slicer is a complete damage ship though (I get +25% damage per frig level, which is only 4 atm) so I'm sure that adds to the difference but still, it seems mad to have that much difference.
Wall of text incoming, brace for impact
Scorch is cool.
In a cruiser you can get like 24km/30km optimal with Scorch which is huge.
In a frig it's also nice. You get 17km with MPLs and perfect skills before you start sticking stuff to help your range on. This means you can in theory fly around stuff shooting it while you lol at it's attempts to snag you and shoot you back.
Range isn't ever negligible in a frig btw.
People also use webifiers to keep you away.
Therefore if you cannot effectively deal damage at 7-9km and the other dude can hold you at that range whilst hitting you, you're going to lose. A fair amount of ships are fit up like this.
Also don't make the mistake of thinking the EFT DPS figure is what you're actually going to get. That's gross DPS.
Range, tracking, resists and target size all mitigate against it in the real (internet spaceships) world.
That high figure you get with conflag is vs. a big stationary target at zero range.
A target out of range, with high EM resists or burning around you faster than you can track is going to be taking a lot less damage.
It can get really mathematical if you go into a lot of detail.
Guides to the gunnery damage formula here:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_Guide
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage
Handy thingy for making a graph of your logs here (if you want to see what happened to your deeps when you switched crystals etc):
http://www.eve-log.com/log.html
Scorch is cool.
In a cruiser you can get like 24km/30km optimal with Scorch which is huge.
In a frig it's also nice. You get 17km with MPLs and perfect skills before you start sticking stuff to help your range on. This means you can in theory fly around stuff shooting it while you lol at it's attempts to snag you and shoot you back.
Range isn't ever negligible in a frig btw.
People also use webifiers to keep you away.
Therefore if you cannot effectively deal damage at 7-9km and the other dude can hold you at that range whilst hitting you, you're going to lose. A fair amount of ships are fit up like this.
Also don't make the mistake of thinking the EFT DPS figure is what you're actually going to get. That's gross DPS.
Range, tracking, resists and target size all mitigate against it in the real (internet spaceships) world.
That high figure you get with conflag is vs. a big stationary target at zero range.
A target out of range, with high EM resists or burning around you faster than you can track is going to be taking a lot less damage.
It can get really mathematical if you go into a lot of detail.
Guides to the gunnery damage formula here:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_Guide
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage
Handy thingy for making a graph of your logs here (if you want to see what happened to your deeps when you switched crystals etc):
http://www.eve-log.com/log.html
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 19 Aug 2011
- Posts
- 871
I get that I won't actually be doing 130dps, but say I'm only doing 50% of that, 65 DPS is more than the 45 DPS I'd be doing with 50% of 90 DPS from the scorches.
I'm using MPLIIs and with scorchs I have an optimum range of just under 14km (sorry, I must've misread when I said both were under 10km, I'm looking now). I'll keep that in mind if I try PvP in this ship (I want to but I'm still unsure. Not helped by losing 40m earlier by misunderstanding what someone was telling me and attacking someone next to a gate).
The only downside to this ship is that I only have 2 mid slots, for PvP I'd want a scrambler in and a MWD or AB. I'm planning on getting in an assault ship before I PvP really anyway then using the slicers for PvE.
I'm using MPLIIs and with scorchs I have an optimum range of just under 14km (sorry, I must've misread when I said both were under 10km, I'm looking now). I'll keep that in mind if I try PvP in this ship (I want to but I'm still unsure. Not helped by losing 40m earlier by misunderstanding what someone was telling me and attacking someone next to a gate).
The only downside to this ship is that I only have 2 mid slots, for PvP I'd want a scrambler in and a MWD or AB. I'm planning on getting in an assault ship before I PvP really anyway then using the slicers for PvE.
That's 90 dps out to 14 (train your skillz up more) though. If the target is at 14, your conflag will be doing 3 dps or something.
This is not an insignificant advantage.
The real answer with lasers is to carry crystals for a variety of purposes (Scorch, Conflag, IN MF) and instaswitch them depending on the situation.
For PVE you probably just want a selection of T1 unless you're making great ISK. Dunno what the break even point for firing fancy crystals at people is.
This is not an insignificant advantage.
The real answer with lasers is to carry crystals for a variety of purposes (Scorch, Conflag, IN MF) and instaswitch them depending on the situation.
For PVE you probably just want a selection of T1 unless you're making great ISK. Dunno what the break even point for firing fancy crystals at people is.
Faction crystals are worth it from a very early point in my opinion. If you can afford a Navy Slicer you can afford to use navy multifrequency ammo with it 
With the right skills and fitting you can get the slicer to hit at around 20km with scorch, which is epic range in a frigate really. This is where the ship shines for pvp. Point the enemy with a warp disrupter, orbit/kite them outside web range and hit them with scorch ammo until they die before even getting into range to hit you hard
With the right skills and fitting you can get the slicer to hit at around 20km with scorch, which is epic range in a frigate really. This is where the ship shines for pvp. Point the enemy with a warp disrupter, orbit/kite them outside web range and hit them with scorch ammo until they die before even getting into range to hit you hard
Associate
- Joined
- 19 Aug 2011
- Posts
- 871
Ok, I'll carry around conflag and scorch
I probably could've got faction crystals earlier but I never really felt I needed them. From what I can see, the conflag are the highest damage crystals in the game and scorch has more damage than it's faction range equivalent so I'm happy with them for pure damage at the moment.
I probably could've got faction crystals earlier but I never really felt I needed them. From what I can see, the conflag are the highest damage crystals in the game and scorch has more damage than it's faction range equivalent so I'm happy with them for pure damage at the moment.
quick crystal guide for short range weapons:
Navy MF for close up against fast stuff
Conflag for close up bigger stuff
Scorch if you want/need to be at range. No advantage to scorch except range
If you need something in between, carry navy standard, I don't normally bother unless I'm using beams or capital lasers though.
Navy MF for close up against fast stuff
Conflag for close up bigger stuff
Scorch if you want/need to be at range. No advantage to scorch except range
If you need something in between, carry navy standard, I don't normally bother unless I'm using beams or capital lasers though.
You could get it on Steam but there's no point unless it's in a sale.
Also there aren't different versions of the game. If you start playing you'll be playing the same game as everyone else.
Best to ask someone to send you a code for a 60 day trial and download the client from the Eve online website.
Also there aren't different versions of the game. If you start playing you'll be playing the same game as everyone else.
Best to ask someone to send you a code for a 60 day trial and download the client from the Eve online website.
download the client from here http://www.eveonline.com/download/
Range is important in a lot of ways when considering DPS.
Consider 2 frigs speed 500m/s
Enemy optimal 12 falloff 12
You optimal 25 falloff 10
So you start doing damage at 35 km even if you fly full speed toward each other it'll take 10 secs for his guns to find even there farthest range while you hit your optimal. Now it isn't 10*DPS because of the way fallof works but it is a significant amount of damage.
Lets say you decide to play clever though and at 25KM you trun your ship away from him, now he can't close the range and you are sitting at optimal (full DPS) range while he cannot hit you at all.
The second scenario I describe is the tactic known as 'kiting' but it's just an example of how distance is very important in actual application of DPS to an opponent.
Consider 2 frigs speed 500m/s
Enemy optimal 12 falloff 12
You optimal 25 falloff 10
So you start doing damage at 35 km even if you fly full speed toward each other it'll take 10 secs for his guns to find even there farthest range while you hit your optimal. Now it isn't 10*DPS because of the way fallof works but it is a significant amount of damage.
Lets say you decide to play clever though and at 25KM you trun your ship away from him, now he can't close the range and you are sitting at optimal (full DPS) range while he cannot hit you at all.
The second scenario I describe is the tactic known as 'kiting' but it's just an example of how distance is very important in actual application of DPS to an opponent.
ah ok, i typed it in steam and there was like crucible incursion tyrannis dominion etc, few more aswell. Thats why i asked, going to download the 14 day trial from steam soon
I can send you a 21 day trial if you like rather than the bog standard 14 day one (if you havent signed up already). Any current subscriber can do this actually, you get a slightly longer trial and I get a free month if you decide to subscribe. I think the 60 day trials have finished now as they were a bit of a promotion over Christmas/New Year.
Just send me your email in trust.
