Bleeping furious right now!

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shadesofgrey said:
You get travel expenses. So it actually costs more than just giving them JSA. with only one out of 10 getting the job (maybe) you can start to see how backwards the scheme is. Just like all the ones in the past.
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THe idea is, right now, or before you could get your money and sit around all week doing nothing. So the choice was, find/get a job and get paid the same, or sit around and do nothing all day, and get paid. It's an easy choice for most people. This way the choice is, work hard all day to get paid almost nothing, or work hard to get a job, and work hard and get paid hugely better in a REAL job.

The entire idea is to make JSA very low pay for very hard work, encouraging everyone who can to get off JSA.

its not a backwards scheme, before it was just paying people who had no intention of ever getting off JSA, paying slightly less for, essentially, ever is NOT cheaper than paying companies to work them hard to force them off JSA over a much much shorter period.

The single biggest problem is this country is benefits are currently a VIABLE ALTERNATIVE to working, they should not be, at all, it should not be close, it should be the worst possible choice for everyone so that no one wants to "live" off JSA/benefits for life, as many people really are doing now.
 
My main problem with these schemes is not the fact that they get unemployed people to work, but that they provide free labour to large companies who then don't need to employ others to do the same job.

How many potential jobs are lost because Tesco etc. realise they can rely on the government to provide them with free shelf stackers, rather than ones on minimum wage?

Get people out doing something that will benefit society if we want them to work for their unemployment - like cleaning up towns, social care or the like.
 
Steal from the shop, dead simple. Take back what is rightfully yours and justify it by proclaiming it is the value of your labour. Destroy capitalism and crush the wealth holding bourgeois slave labourers, do your bit for your country and fellow workers.
 
Rroff said:
hes probably one of those lucky ones who can somehow walk out of one job into another with little hassle - I know a few like it IRL and they have no concept of what its like for people who aren't naturally confident, lucky or in the right place at the right time, started their careers on the right foot, etc. strangely enough when/if their luck is reversed they are suddenly making excuses as to why their own rules don't apply to themselves.
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It's pretty well documented behaviour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
 
Haggisman said:
The "well qualified" should be more than smart enough to get themselves a job without needing their hands held and guided through the process.



Rubbish! I can guarantee you if I were to lose my job tomorrow, I could be back in work by next weekend.

It might not be a job in my field of expertise, it might be low pay and long hours, but it's still a job. (For example, Domino's are always advertising for drivers and in-store staff)
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If you read what I said, I specifically mentioned "decent position".

That excludes working in Domino's.
 
A few problems seem pretty obvious.

1. This undermines our minimum wage laws & is no better than legalised slavery.

2. This plan does not actually solve any problems, it company A could make money by employing 5 extra staff members they would do exactly that - that's how business works.

They are taking these people on BECAUSE the labour is free, not because they have vacancies.

3. Does this not provide an incentive for companies to stop advertising for low end jobs?, if they can fill the void with free labour?, it makes sense from a business perspective so they WOULD do it - that's how it works.

4. I fail to see how this will encourage people who are out of work into getting jobs, if anything I can only see this increasing the crime rate.

If we do go down the road of forcing them into labour then we should pay them for the work, this view is supported by our scientific understand of human behaviour & motivation.

They may get used to receiving the increased income (spending habits increase) & may feel encouraged into getting a job.
 
elmarko1234 said:
If you read what I said, I specifically mentioned "decent position".

That excludes working in Domino's.
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And if you're too up yourself to work for something you don't consider to be a "decent position" then to be perfectly honest you deserve to be stuck looking for very long time.

My point was to illustrate the fact that there's no reason for anyone to be out of work for 2 months, even if you want that "decent position", there's nothing to stop you working somewhere else while you're looking. The attitude of "that job is below me" is exactly what's wrong with the system at the moment.
 
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if that were me, id put all the books in the wrong place and spend all day mixing them up. slave gets fired for being naughty slave e.t.c :)

if they want full time workers, pay them minimum wage. if not, 10hrs per week is the maximum they should have to do.
 
I agree with the scheme in principle, why should people get money for sitting on their arse waiting for their dream job.

It's hardly legalised slavery either as you can simple avoid it by not claiming the benefit in the first place and supporting yourself between jobs.
 
wnb said:
I need staff, I had over 100 people apply for a job at my care home. Compare this 1 year ago and I was lucky to get 5. Also the quality of people applying has increased so we can be fussy. The home care side of the business is growing and I have had only 2 applicants in 1 week. If anyone lives up in Carlisle I have jobs going part and full time.

Jobs are out their if you look for them.
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If you have desirable skills.

People on JSA should be encouraged to learn new skills. Skills that could potentially take them places.
 
hurfdurf said:
Steal from the shop, dead simple. Take back what is rightfully yours and justify it by proclaiming it is the value of your labour. Destroy capitalism and crush the wealth holding bourgeois slave labourers, do your bit for your country and fellow workers.
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This really is the only answer. Burn the shop to the ground.
 
Brookert said:
There aren't a lack of jobs for these people, just a lack of jobs they would like to do.

Big difference.
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Not really, its true in some areas there are enough jobs for the people and people stick their noses upto it but not all. A lot of places have very little employment opportunities, plus unskilled jobs (shops,etc) are getting cut/closing with current staff getting less hours in these areas.

Tarring everyone and every area with the same brush is idiotic and is why these schemes fail time after time and waste more of our cash.
 
Haggisman said:
My point was to illustrate the fact that there's no reason for anyone to be out of work for 2 months, even if you want that "decent position", there's nothing to stop you working somewhere else while you're looking. The attitude of "that job is below me" is exactly what's wrong with the system at the moment.
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I would dispute that tbh - there are no vacancies at all in the fast food places locally (from friends who do those kinda jobs they've filled their books with people on low/0 hour contracts) - a new KFC is opening and the manager recently posted on their facebook page a note to anyone that had applied saying he was sorry if anyone didn't get a reply or was turned down as he'd had over 2000 applications for 40 jobs. Likewise retailers aren't hiring and those that aren't heavily cutting down on costs are still shedding xmas temps.

From a quick look through the local job ads there doesn't seem to be a shortage of jobs going but most of them are fairly specialised middle management roles... infact I can only see 3 jobs that just anyone could apply for which are all ads for cleaners and probably filled faster than they went up.
 
Rroff said:
I would dispute that tbh - there are no vacancies at all in the fast food places locally (from friends who do those kinda jobs they've filled their books with people on low/0 hour contracts) - a new KFC is opening and the manager recently posted on their facebook page a note to anyone that had applied saying he was sorry if anyone didn't get a reply or was turned down as he'd had over 2000 applications for 40 jobs. Likewise retailers aren't hiring and those that aren't heavily cutting down on costs are still shedding xmas temps.

From a quick look through the local job ads there doesn't seem to be a shortage of jobs going but most of them are fairly specialised middle management roles... infact I can only see 3 jobs that just anyone could apply for which are all ads for cleaners and probably filled faster than they went up.
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Then move :confused:
 
Rroff said:
From a quick look through the local job ads there doesn't seem to be a shortage of jobs going but most of them are fairly specialised middle management roles... infact I can only see 3 jobs that just anyone could apply for which are all ads for cleaners and probably filled faster than they went up.
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An awful lot of low skill jobs tend to be filled by agencies these days so adverts don't tend to appear for them.
 
hurfdurf said:
Your advice to unemployed people with nothing to their name is to move?! Do you live in a fantasy world where moving location and house is free?
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Moving isn't <that> expensive - especially if, as you say, they have nothing to their name.

Xiler said:
People cant just move. If a person is on benefits and just moves out they are seen to have made themselves homeless thus not eligable for rehousing.
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You move when you've found a job. To wherever the job is. I would have thought that much was obvious? That way, once they have moved, they have a job, are able to pay for accommodation, and are no longer homeless.

As has been said many times over in this thread, there ARE jobs out there, they just aren't necessarily the jobs people want in the locations they want.
 
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