More often than not that's totally impractical, especially if they are low paid jobs.
Bleeping furious right now!
- Thread starter C.#
- Start date
Then move
Sorry was this serious?
Granted I moved to a different area (where I am now ironically) to be able to get a job but that certainly is not an option for many people for many varied and completely valid reasons not the least that many unemployed people simply couldn't afford it - infact wasn't really an option for me except I had the chance come up of moving in with family temporarily which made it possible.
I keep an eye on sites like totaljobs and the local agencies as the job I'm doing atm is just to keep the money coming in while I look for something better. It really is pretty screwed job wise around here.
EDIT: Tho it doesn't help that couple of years ago 2 of the biggest employers here for call center/warehouse work moved out the area dumping over 3000 people without specialised skills back onto the market, even so nowhere else I've looked seems all that different in the South/South West.
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What jobs pay you a months pay upfront to pay for rent?.
Every single job I've worked I've had to put in at least 1 to 2 months work before my first pay finally arrived, how exactly would the person pay for rent in this case?.
How does one support oneself while job hunting by not claiming JSA? In order to support yourself between jobs, you will need a job to do so, unless you have **** load of savings.
I agree with the, it's better than sitting on your arse all day and getting the money for "nothing", and gives you something to put on a CV or speak about in an interview, but the hours quote in the OP are a joke, it leaves you no other time to go out searching for a job, I think working hours comparable to the amount of money they're being paid is a better idea personally.
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I have been offered one off upfront payments to cover rent, etc. before on starting a new job paying monthly in arrears (deducted from salary) but I'd guess a lot of companies don't offer that. Certainly not something you could depend on happening.
For many people just for instance those with children already in schools, family dependancies, etc. etc. moving just isn't a reality I can't believe anyone would even seriously suggest it.
Associate
- Joined
- 19 May 2011
- Posts
- 1,656
I’ll start by telling you how I got into this situation but if you want to skip to the real issue scroll down to the heading - CORRUPTION.
The company where I had worked for the last ten years went bust and I found myself unemployed.
I took myself down to the jobcentre and signed on. While I was there I used their terminals to search for a job and discovered just how few vacancies there are.
After a couple of weeks of searching enquiring and applying I realised that many of the vacancies listed are not real jobs, they are posted by employment agencies who are fishing for clients to add to their database. I also soon realised that many of the vacancies are posted multiple times.
I could not find ANY vacancies in my area for my profession (HGV) but did regularly see vacancies for machine drivers. I’d had several tickets in the past for various types of plant vehicles and so I devised a course of action.
CORRUPTION
I asked the advisor in the jobcentre if they could help me to renew my expired plant ticket. They told me that the government had taken this function away from them and handed it to a private company. The adviser booked an appointment for me with the company.
Company #1.
This company received four hundred pounds from the government the moment I walked in their door. They would receive much more when I found employment.
I explained my situation and that I wanted to renew my expired tickets. I also showed them a list of local vacancies for machine drivers. They informed me that I would first need a cscs card and they sent me to another private company.
Company #2.
When I arrived I discovered I was not the only person on this course, there was about thirty of us and another thirty a few days ahead of us. They explained that this was a two week course. I was surprised because I already knew that to get a cscs (health and safety) ticket only required a simple computer based course that takes just a few minutes.
This is where it all gets quite sinister.
They told me I would have to complete a first aid course and a fire marshal course before I could take the cscs test. I objected and said I only wanted to get what was required to get back to work asap but they insisted I had to do both of these first.
The first aid course was two days of talking about accidents. I pressured the guy running this course into telling me what I was qualified to do and he finally said “Your qualified to call an ambulance”.
Here’s the qualification they gave me.
If your injured and need help be cautious of people showing you one of these, you dont even need to unwrap a sticky plaster to get one.
We were then told that for the next two days we were being given a little treat!!! They told us that a man from another company was coming to give us all a nice little talk.
The man arrived. He is private company #3.
When we walked into the room we found he’d set up a projection screen. On the screen were the words
PSYCHOLOGY – CHANGING AUTOMATIC RESPONSES.
This set alarm bells ringing in my head, I watched and listened very carefully.
The first thing he said was “It’s your own fault your unemployed, you need to set your sights lower and be prepared to work for less”
He went on to say “The corporations are doing everything they can to help us”
Before he arrived the mood had been quite good because we all thought we were there to get various qualifications or as in my case my tickets renewed but this guy killed that mood straight away.
I watched in disbelief at what was taking place. He was using psychological techniques to change peoples opinion on why we go to work. According to him we go to work for the good of our country and that is it. When I pulled him up on this and told him I go to work to pay my way through life AND be able to afford such things as a car, a home, a holiday etc I was met with a blank stare from both him and the others in the room.
Realising I was a minority of ONE, I tried to explain that those we work for can afford a car, a home, a holiday etc so why should I not expect the same, I was met with the same blank stare. It was like sitting in a room full of zombies, I was astonished, he’d successfully switched them all off.
Towards the end of the day I poked my nose in again and asked if he had any qualifications to practice psychology and he avoided my question. The next day the first thing he told me was “I don’t need a qualification because I don’t call myself a Psychologist; he’d obviously gotten advice from his masters.
The fire marshal course was as pointless as the first aid course; we didn’t even touch a fire extinguisher. Again I pushed the question of what am I qualified to do and the reply was “You should know how to make your way to the fire assembly point”
Day 11. Company #4
Fifteen minutes on the computer and I passed the test for the cscs ticket.
So, as you can see, four different companies have profited from my unemployment.
I return to company #1 to ask about renewing my plant ticket so that I can get a job. “Sorry, we can’t help you, and we’re closing down so you’ll have to go back to the jobcentre”.
Having done a little poking about I’ve found out that this is happening all across the country. I thought I’d chosen this path but they would have sent me on it anyway.
This is tax payers money and money from EU funds that is meant to provide training, and its being given to private companies who offer nothing in return other than a dose of corporate brainwashing.
On my last visit to the jobcentre I was told that if I don’t find employment soon I’ll be forced to do mandatory full time work for my unemployment benefit. This work will be for... a large corporation.
Before people jump in and ask why I should expect them to pay for my qualifications let me tell you it’s because I PAID FOR IT when I paid tax and national insurance for all those years AND because the government have taken billions from EU funds for this precise purpose. Also I was on a four day week for a year, a three day week for the last three months, and did not get paid for the last three weeks of my previous job, this ate away my savings, I am penniless. I got a small amount of redundancy which got me out of debt but there was nothing left once the debts were paid. I suppose I'm fortunate that I dont have any real debts like so many others do.
Not from me, here is the follow up
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread800531/pg1
The company where I had worked for the last ten years went bust and I found myself unemployed.
I took myself down to the jobcentre and signed on. While I was there I used their terminals to search for a job and discovered just how few vacancies there are.
After a couple of weeks of searching enquiring and applying I realised that many of the vacancies listed are not real jobs, they are posted by employment agencies who are fishing for clients to add to their database. I also soon realised that many of the vacancies are posted multiple times.
I could not find ANY vacancies in my area for my profession (HGV) but did regularly see vacancies for machine drivers. I’d had several tickets in the past for various types of plant vehicles and so I devised a course of action.
CORRUPTION
I asked the advisor in the jobcentre if they could help me to renew my expired plant ticket. They told me that the government had taken this function away from them and handed it to a private company. The adviser booked an appointment for me with the company.
Company #1.
This company received four hundred pounds from the government the moment I walked in their door. They would receive much more when I found employment.
I explained my situation and that I wanted to renew my expired tickets. I also showed them a list of local vacancies for machine drivers. They informed me that I would first need a cscs card and they sent me to another private company.
Company #2.
When I arrived I discovered I was not the only person on this course, there was about thirty of us and another thirty a few days ahead of us. They explained that this was a two week course. I was surprised because I already knew that to get a cscs (health and safety) ticket only required a simple computer based course that takes just a few minutes.
This is where it all gets quite sinister.
They told me I would have to complete a first aid course and a fire marshal course before I could take the cscs test. I objected and said I only wanted to get what was required to get back to work asap but they insisted I had to do both of these first.
The first aid course was two days of talking about accidents. I pressured the guy running this course into telling me what I was qualified to do and he finally said “Your qualified to call an ambulance”.
Here’s the qualification they gave me.
If your injured and need help be cautious of people showing you one of these, you dont even need to unwrap a sticky plaster to get one.
We were then told that for the next two days we were being given a little treat!!! They told us that a man from another company was coming to give us all a nice little talk.
The man arrived. He is private company #3.
When we walked into the room we found he’d set up a projection screen. On the screen were the words
PSYCHOLOGY – CHANGING AUTOMATIC RESPONSES.
This set alarm bells ringing in my head, I watched and listened very carefully.
The first thing he said was “It’s your own fault your unemployed, you need to set your sights lower and be prepared to work for less”
He went on to say “The corporations are doing everything they can to help us”
Before he arrived the mood had been quite good because we all thought we were there to get various qualifications or as in my case my tickets renewed but this guy killed that mood straight away.
I watched in disbelief at what was taking place. He was using psychological techniques to change peoples opinion on why we go to work. According to him we go to work for the good of our country and that is it. When I pulled him up on this and told him I go to work to pay my way through life AND be able to afford such things as a car, a home, a holiday etc I was met with a blank stare from both him and the others in the room.
Realising I was a minority of ONE, I tried to explain that those we work for can afford a car, a home, a holiday etc so why should I not expect the same, I was met with the same blank stare. It was like sitting in a room full of zombies, I was astonished, he’d successfully switched them all off.
Towards the end of the day I poked my nose in again and asked if he had any qualifications to practice psychology and he avoided my question. The next day the first thing he told me was “I don’t need a qualification because I don’t call myself a Psychologist; he’d obviously gotten advice from his masters.
The fire marshal course was as pointless as the first aid course; we didn’t even touch a fire extinguisher. Again I pushed the question of what am I qualified to do and the reply was “You should know how to make your way to the fire assembly point”
Day 11. Company #4
Fifteen minutes on the computer and I passed the test for the cscs ticket.
So, as you can see, four different companies have profited from my unemployment.
I return to company #1 to ask about renewing my plant ticket so that I can get a job. “Sorry, we can’t help you, and we’re closing down so you’ll have to go back to the jobcentre”.
Having done a little poking about I’ve found out that this is happening all across the country. I thought I’d chosen this path but they would have sent me on it anyway.
This is tax payers money and money from EU funds that is meant to provide training, and its being given to private companies who offer nothing in return other than a dose of corporate brainwashing.
On my last visit to the jobcentre I was told that if I don’t find employment soon I’ll be forced to do mandatory full time work for my unemployment benefit. This work will be for... a large corporation.
Before people jump in and ask why I should expect them to pay for my qualifications let me tell you it’s because I PAID FOR IT when I paid tax and national insurance for all those years AND because the government have taken billions from EU funds for this precise purpose. Also I was on a four day week for a year, a three day week for the last three months, and did not get paid for the last three weeks of my previous job, this ate away my savings, I am penniless. I got a small amount of redundancy which got me out of debt but there was nothing left once the debts were paid. I suppose I'm fortunate that I dont have any real debts like so many others do.
Not from me, here is the follow up
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread800531/pg1
I say get all these unemployed people who use our taxes to pay for xbox subsciptions and fast food and make then start scrubbing streets, cleaning up dog muck. Cleaning up graffitti that way they would have earned the money we worked for that they steal on a daily basis!
As I mentioned awhile back the job center, etc. isn't there to help get people back to work, its there to manage unemployment a subtle but significant difference.
And as that poster noted - tho seems a bit of a tall tale - a good number of job ads actually are just agencies fishing for people to put on their books. I can't count the number of times I've applied through agencies for positions like that and after a couple of weeks of phoning them they finally come back with a response along the lines of "Sorry the deal with that company has fallen through but we'll keep you informed of any similiar openings".
Associate
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2009
- Posts
- 718
My response to that would simply be, if you have been working for 25 years why did you not have the foresight to put at least some money away
I'm not saying that JSA is not there to be claimed but I do wonder why it doesn't enter into some people's heads to put money aside for such eventualities.
Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Sep 2011
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- 6,190
- Location
- melee island
Pathetic low figure tbh. How does that compare to the % of people who would have found work anyway?
They did. National insurence. They are totally entitled to their contribution based benefits.My response to that would simply be, if you have been working for 25 years why did you not have the foresight to put at least some money away
National insurance is a state run ponzi scheme, it has no resemblance to any actual form of insurance. There is no fund you are paying into, it's just general taxation.
Relying on the state to protect you is foolish in the extreme, the system is terribly designed, punishes the deserving and rewards the ****less.
Someone else said its actually running at 26% but target is 40%, that's a prett good figure IMO
I never said it was easy, but if there are literally no jobs in your area (which in itself I find very hard to believe), what would you suggest as an alternative? Sit on your bottom for the rest of your life whining about how it's so unfair while the rest of us pay for it? There always seems to be this feeling that it's someone else's fault, and an expectation that someone else will sort it out.
Well worth a read on this very topic http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/feb/10/unions-shops-unpaid-work-schemes
Regarding working for places like dominoes as examples of 'not your ideal job, but a job nonetheless'. Here's my experience - working 6-7 nights a week, using your own vehicle, you got an hourly rate, plus a quid per delivery, use their vehicle, you just get the hourly rate. When I did this for a few months, working 6-7 nights a week, it was not enough to maintain subsistence living.
As a supplement to a proper full time job, sure, it will give you a few extra quid, after your tax has been worked out, but you cannot "earn a living' delivering pizza.
It's a non-job.
Only once have I heard someone get cash in advance for living costs when starting a new job, but that was because the employer wanted the candidate and was prepared to offer a relocation fee. Not many companies do this for your 'ordinary job'.
As you say, 'moving is not really an option' for the majority. I can't believe it was a serious suggestion either.
If you're broke, I don't understand how you can absorb the cost of moving house to another area, paying estate/letting agent fees, a full deposit and at least one months rent in advance and negotiate new employment and travel for work... to me that sounds like madness, especially for a blue collar job. If you're a high-flyer, who's head-hunted by the competition, we might be looking at a totally different scenario. But I don't think that's what's being discussed here.
Wow, that is scarily close to something I experienced some time ago. The whole thing just made me double take, wait... what now?
Ah, but they have you there too - no matter how many years you believe you have accrued NI contributions, the DWP will only look at the last tax year to assess your eligibility to contribution based JSA etc and even then, you only get 6 months worth contribution based payments. After that it becomes income based, which is influenced by all sorts of things. Like do you have a partner who is earning over 16K? If yes, the you get FA but your NI stamp paid. You might bet Council tax benefit, but if you're not getting income or contributions based jsa or whatever, getting HB/CTB can be very difficult.
As a supplement to a proper full time job, sure, it will give you a few extra quid, after your tax has been worked out, but you cannot "earn a living' delivering pizza.
It's a non-job.
Only once have I heard someone get cash in advance for living costs when starting a new job, but that was because the employer wanted the candidate and was prepared to offer a relocation fee. Not many companies do this for your 'ordinary job'.
As you say, 'moving is not really an option' for the majority. I can't believe it was a serious suggestion either.
If you're broke, I don't understand how you can absorb the cost of moving house to another area, paying estate/letting agent fees, a full deposit and at least one months rent in advance and negotiate new employment and travel for work... to me that sounds like madness, especially for a blue collar job. If you're a high-flyer, who's head-hunted by the competition, we might be looking at a totally different scenario. But I don't think that's what's being discussed here.
Wow, that is scarily close to something I experienced some time ago. The whole thing just made me double take, wait... what now?
Ah, but they have you there too - no matter how many years you believe you have accrued NI contributions, the DWP will only look at the last tax year to assess your eligibility to contribution based JSA etc and even then, you only get 6 months worth contribution based payments. After that it becomes income based, which is influenced by all sorts of things. Like do you have a partner who is earning over 16K? If yes, the you get FA but your NI stamp paid. You might bet Council tax benefit, but if you're not getting income or contributions based jsa or whatever, getting HB/CTB can be very difficult.
Associate
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2009
- Posts
- 718
I quite clearly stated this was the case so why you use that as some form of argument against what I said is beyond me.
People know exactly what benefits they will be entitled to claim if they lose their job. This is not enough for them, yet they still put nothing aside. There's a whole culture of "it's someone else's responsibility" and it needs to be addressed.
the orginal target was for 40% of over-25s to get a job but estimates now show only 26% will get one. Companies are themselves pulling out of the scheme, other are getting thrown out for failing to provide jobs/training, so its going to be much much lower.
Wasting 3-4 billion of our money when it could be better spent. I’m all for making people get training while jobless, heck apprentices gain £70-80 a week for 1-2yrs the rest is for training. I’m not for wasting it on stupid schemes like this.
Also there are not enough jobs for everyone, around 400,000 currently advertised and 2.7million unemployed do the maths.
NOTE:the 2.7m unemployed is calculated from ONLY people who are seeking jobs and can start immediately, so those that cant start immediately for whatever reason are not even counted its actually 3m+.