Organ Donation Opt-Out

Irish_Tom

Irish_Tom

Irish_Tom

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The BMA calls for fresh debate on rate of organ donation.

I've just been listening to a debate on Radio 4 and there are some very strong arguments from both sides of the debate.

I'm currently on the Organ Donor List, I signed up when I reapplied for my driving licence.

I'd like to think that some good could come out of my own death by helping others.

My girlfriend believes that because I carry the card, doctors or paramedics would be less likely to do 'all they can' for me in order to 'harvest' my organs.

Despite being a registered organ donor, I'm undecided about an opt-out system.

I think it would probably be better if more was done to raise awareness and encourage people to sign-up, rather than an opt-out policy.

According to one chap on the radio, Spain (which has the highest percentage of organ donors per 1,000 population) has an opt-out system but the boost in the number of organ donors came not from the opt-out policy, but a reaction to a film about a family going through the difficult time of deciding whether to consent to their loved-ones organs being donated.

What do you all think?
 
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I would prefer it to be opt out, on condition that the doctors don't know if the patient has opted in or out until he/she is dead. I don't know think a doctor would be that irresponsible to treat you differently, but I would rather not risk it for a biscuit!
 
Id be very, very, very disturbed if first on the scene paramedics began checking peoples
purses and wallets for organ donor cards.

I think it should be an opt out scheme, I don't know the percentage of people that carry cards? I'm guessing its not that high. Strictly from a financial point of view an opt would be more expensive to set up and then the legal implications of relatives arguing the deceased never got round to opting out.

At least opting in shows 100% commitment.
 
I'm an organ donor, I don't see what I'm going to do with them dead.

Massive paranoia to think that anyone would try less to save you if you were one too! Pretty much the weirdest thing to assume that a doctor who's career is saving people would try less to harvest organs.
 
The trying less is absolute balls, tell your misses to think about what she is actually saying! I have to ask families for their opinion on organ donation all too often, it's sad but part of my job. I also get the letter of where the organs went, which always makes me smile......



rotters
 
I don't know if I'm opted in or out these days. I vaguely remember opting in at some stage years ago when I signed up for something, but I don't carry a card or anything like that.
 
Panzerbjorn said:
My girlfriend believes that because I carry the card, doctors or paramedics would be less likely to do 'all they can' for me in order to 'harvest' my organs.
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Sounds like your girlfriend has already donated her brain. What a ridiculous suggestion.:rolleyes:
 
I like the opt-out system and really hope it comes into force. what annoys me more is that the relatives can overrule donar status if they want to, or at least thats how i understand it.
 
rotters said:
The trying less is absolute balls, tell your misses to think about what she is actually saying! I have to ask families for their opinion on organ donation all too often, it's sad but part of my job. I also get the letter of where the organs went, which always makes me smile......



rotters
Click to expand...

Makes you smile as in they went to good homes?
 
If you'd asked me this question 3 or 4 years ago I was completely in favour of organ donation and would have supported an opt out system. However I've now had experience of how organ donation works in the real world, and I know that I could never put my family through what I went through nor go through it again myself.

Around 3 years ago my father had a massive stroke at home with my mother, he was taken to hospital, but it was made clear right from the start that the damage to his brain was too severe and nothing could be done for him. He was kept alive on a ventilator, but he was clinically brain dead.

We were approached by the NHS organ donation team with the possiblity of them using his organs to help others... We knew that he had very open views on the subject, so we consented to this as maybe something good could come out of his death. The organ donation team said that they would need to keep him on the ventilator until they could get a team of surgeons in place to harvest his organs - this was at 9am in the morning - but we were assured that it would only take a couple of hours for this to happen.

I took my mum home so she could grab a shower and get changed, we would come back later to say our final goodbyes. We were back at the hospital for 11am, along with my fathers other son and daughter to say goodbye for the last time. We sat around till midday, till 1pm, till 2pm... till 5pm. We were then told that there had been a delay getting the team to us, they would be here at 8pm. Its hard to explain but all that time waiting... dragging out the decision to turn off his life support, seeing him lay there, breathing through a machine, it was just so hard.

At 9.30pm the team was in place, we were told that he would be moved to a room adjacent to an operating theatre, we would be able to stay with him once they turned the equipment of, and to be with him until he passed. Outside the room stood waiting the team of surgeons who would be performing the "harvest" - there they stood, laughing and joking, while we wheeled my father in.

The ventilator was turned off, it would only be a matter of time now for my father to pass. It didnt happen straight away like in the movies, it took around 2 hours for his breathing to stop. During that two hours I repeatedly saw the team of surgeons glancing into the room through the window, almost like a pack of vultures checking to see if he was dead yet, like they were wishing him to hurry up and die. Another thing they don't tell you is that the NHS has a very stringent timeline on when an organ will still be useful, I dont remember the full details of it, but once you past a certain point without ventilation certain organs start to become unharvestable. By the time my father finally went the only thing that was "useful" was his liver.

By that point, we just needed to get out there. It felt like any and all dignity had been stripped from my fathers passing, an already horrible heartbreaking situation had been made twice as bad, had been dragged out... I still get angry and sad when I think about it, my mother still cannot and will not talk about to this day. Could I put my family through that? Never.
 
Panzerbjorn said:
I agree with you, if I didn't I would have removed myself from the list. :p

There's no convincing her though. :rolleyes:
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Perhaps the first step would be to ask her how the paramedics would know you'd consented (whichever system is in place). Searching for a card seems a bit unlikely.

I am an organ donor and firm supporter of the opt-out system. The vast (and I do mean vast) majority of people I have spoken to about this have come back with words along the line of "I know I should but I can't be arsed/keep forgetting/don't know how" etc.
 
It's irrational but organ donation just creeps me out. I sympathise with the post above re: dignified death. I'd prefer it to stay opt-in.

By the same token, I'd not expect to be a priority for a transplant if I was in need. I like to think I would just shrug my shoulders and accept that my time is up.
 
It should be a two way opt-in system.

You can either give & receive organs, or neither.

(unless ill/sick or a previous donor) - does not apply to children/mentally ill people.

I think you will find people signing onto the donor list a little more if they have some personal stake in the matter.

Me - I've been a donor since I can remember.

I can respect people who want to give but not don't want to receive (my partner is like that) or people who don't want it either way - but those who are willing to take, but not give back are scum.
 
I agree with the opt-out policy. I think there are more people out there that would like to be a donor but just haven't got round to opting in. Everyone should be classed as a donor unless they opt-out in my opinion.
 
Marky said:
I agree with the opt-out policy. I think there are more people out there that would like to be a donor but just haven't got round to opting in. Everyone should be classed as a donor unless they opt-out in my opinion.
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Personally I'm uncomfortable with being "spare parts" by default. I'm sure many others are, hence the strong arguments on either side.
 
Edrof said:
Makes you smile as in they went to good homes?
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Yes last letter was like this:

19 year old male, now back at collage, aims to apply for university soon. Wishes to be a film director, has started playing rugby again and aims to become fit. The liver lobe transplant was a success.

Yup that made me smile.

Rids said:
If you'd asked me this question 3 or 4 years ago I was completely in favour of organ donation and would have supported an opt out system. However I've now had experience of how organ donation works in the real world, and I know that I could never put my family through what I went through nor go through it again myself.

Around 3 years ago my father had a massive stroke at home with my mother, he was taken to hospital, but it was made clear right from the start that the damage to his brain was too severe and nothing could be done for him. He was kept alive on a ventilator, but he was clinically brain dead.

We were approached by the NHS organ donation team with the possiblity of them using his organs to help others... We knew that he had very open views on the subject, so we consented to this as maybe something good could come out of his death. The organ donation team said that they would need to keep him on the ventilator until they could get a team of surgeons in place to harvest his organs - this was at 9am in the morning - but we were assured that it would only take a couple of hours for this to happen.

I took my mum home so she could grab a shower and get changed, we would come back later to say our final goodbyes. We were back at the hospital for 11am, along with my fathers other son and daughter to say goodbye for the last time. We sat around till midday, till 1pm, till 2pm... till 5pm. We were then told that there had been a delay getting the team to us, they would be here at 8pm. Its hard to explain but all that time waiting... dragging out the decision to turn off his life support, seeing him lay there, breathing through a machine, it was just so hard.

At 9.30pm the team was in place, we were told that he would be moved to a room adjacent to an operating theatre, we would be able to stay with him once they turned the equipment of, and to be with him until he passed. Outside the room stood waiting the team of surgeons who would be performing the "harvest" - there they stood, laughing and joking, while we wheeled my father in.

The ventilator was turned off, it would only be a matter of time now for my father to pass. It didnt happen straight away like in the movies, it took around 2 hours for his breathing to stop. During that two hours I repeatedly saw the team of surgeons glancing into the room through the window, almost like a pack of vultures checking to see if he was dead yet, like they were wishing him to hurry up and die. Another thing they don't tell you is that the NHS has a very stringent timeline on when an organ will still be useful, I dont remember the full details of it, but once you past a certain point without ventilation certain organs start to become unharvestable. By the time my father finally went the only thing that was "useful" was his liver.

By that point, we just needed to get out there. It felt like any and all dignity had been stripped from my fathers passing, an already horrible heartbreaking situation had been made twice as bad, had been dragged out... I still get angry and sad when I think about it, my mother still cannot and will not talk about to this day. Could I put my family through that? Never.
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Whilst this is a sad situation, that liver he transplanted was very helpful to 3 people! As for staff laughing, it should have been out of ear shot, but could you imagine doing this job? A good sense of humour is a must and is a very important coping strategy. Your father not dying for over 2 hours was unavoidable and uncontrollable. The time stringency is imperative as you wouldn't want to give a patient damaged organs. It was a raw time for you but don't let one example of anything allow you to make such sweeping emotional statements.



rotters
 
The thing is, I do think that an overwhelming majority of people would be perfectly happy for their organs to donate their organs, but a lot are simply too apathetic to register for a card. I think that an opt-out, rather than opt-in policy of organ donation makes a lot more sense, and in no small part due to the huge amount of extra organs would be available.

Opt-out if you really have a problem with it. :)
 
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