Petition to save the NHS

piggeh said:
My 'beef' is simply their manipulation of figures. I don't have any other beef with them.
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Oh really seemed a bit passionate there ... can't say I disagree with you I hold the RCN in very low esteem. But the changes are not for the better from what I have seen. And there is no point pushing people home when they community support is clearly not there and in many cases is being slashed. Well that is unless you are planning on saving money by getting the relatives to do everything for you.
 
Ben Goldacre has hit the nail on the head: The Tories are giving GPs commissioning powers, which they have neither the time nor experience to properly exercise. When they fail, there will be American companies ready to step in and fleece the taxpayer. But that will be OK, because private enterprise taking billions of pounds out of the country is somehow better than correctable NHS inefficiencies.

Look at the trains, look at PFI: part-privatisation leaves the taxpayer will all the liabilities and private companies with a mountain of money that should be put back into the system. This will be no different. The Tories (and New Labour) do not give a rat's arse about providing a decent service - they see the public purse as something that exists to be raided by the private companies they will take up jobs in after they lose an election.
 
I'm a fan of Ben Goldacre. I certainly agree that the NHS needs reform but not like this.

/off topic; He gave a fantastic talk at TED.

Signed.
 
TJM said:
Ben Goldacre has hit the nail on the head: The Tories are giving GPs commissioning powers, which they have neither the time nor experience to properly exercise. When they fail, there will be American companies ready to step in and fleece the taxpayer.
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I'd prefer to go on the tangible evidence we already have - which is that where we already have forms of GP commissioning.

For example, unbeknown to most people, two years ago there was a full transfer of PCT to GP commissioning in Cumbria, which resulted successes: lower costs, better care.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/healthcar...h-gp-commissioning-michael-dixon-nhs-alliance

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/6140998/gp-commissioning-will-be-good-for-patients-and-the-nhs.thtml said:
So will GP commissioning help? Well, it did before. Between 1991 and 1997 under previous fundholding arrangements GPs became better at allocating scarce NHS resources; they responded to incentives and referral rates amongst fundholding practices fell. For example, admissions for elective procedures amongst fundholding practices were 3.3 percent lower than they would have otherwise had been. GP fundholders also began to move services from hospitals into cheaper and more convenient primary care settings by attracting hospital consultants to provide clinics in settings convenient for patients, not hospitals. In a competitive model where patients can choose which GP practice to go to, all the evidence tells us that these more efficient, patient focused GP practices will prosper.

Moreover, giving commissioning and financial responsibility to GPs will actually help improve hospital efficiency. During the internal market of the 1990’s, fundholding saw hospital efficiency increase by an average of 1.7 percent per year; but, after it was abolished in 1997 efficiency fell by an average of 1.6 percent per year. Overall, NHS productivity has fallen by an average of 0.4 percent per year in the last decade and so any means of achieving a turnaround should be welcomed.
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I'm all for pragmatism, but this argument that SOMETHING BAD MIGHT HAPPEN1!!!!1 is largely based on conjecture and is not a reason for not reforming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/05/nhs-hospital-reforms-needed
 
I absolutely, unequivocally do not suggest that there aren't problems with the NHS and that those problems need fixing.

What I do say is that the approach being adopted in the Government's Health and Social Care Bill is not the right one. The majority of GPs oppose it and they don't want and are not trained or equipped to manage huge budgets.

This is simply a ploy to privatise large sections of the NHS and as has been mentioned above, we have already seen how well similar projects have gone in the recent past - e.g PFI. This is not a party political issue, New Labour weren't a whole lot better than the ConDems in terms of improving the NHS.

I suspect that the Government know that there are huge risks associated with their plans but believe that there is plenty of money to be made by private companies at the taxpayer's and patient's expense:
Andrew Lansley and the Department of Health (DoH) have been fighting to prevent the publication of an internal analysis carried out by the DoH into the potential risks associated with implementing his reforms. The struggle has lasted over a year since the first requests for information were made, and is still ongoing. The DoH is appealing against a decision by the Information Commissioner, Christopher Graham, ordering it to disclose the report.

The document, known as a Strategic Risk Register, could be highly sensitive as it evaluates the potential risks of the government’s proposed NHS reforms, covering financial risk as well as patient safety. (LINK
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[/quote]If you have relatives or friends who are old or sick, if you have ever used or plan to make use of the NHS, I urge you to sign the e-petition before it is too late.

Poor health should not be a source of wealth.
Good health should not be a product of wealth.
The NHS should never be privatised.

Thanks :)
 
unless you have an alertantive suggestion no, I will happily sign a petition to support a decent set of reforms as I think the current proposals are poor but almost anything would be better than maintaining the status quo in the NHS.
 
No thanks, doesn't apply in Scotland.

I've read up a bit on it, and whilst there are some good ideas within the bill I fear that it is rather cumbersome and will just confuse patients. Whilst the NHS needs to be reformed, it should be done so in a way that patients can understand.
 
Signed. The reforms will destroy the NHS as we know it. Speak to any doctor or healthcare professional and they will tell you the same. I've spoken to a lot of my senior colleagues and all are dead set against this proposed reform! Hopefully it won't pass.
 
shadow_boxer said:
Signed. The reforms will destroy the NHS as we know it. Speak to any doctor or healthcare professional and they will tell you the same. I've spoken to a lot of my senior colleagues and all are dead set against this proposed reform! Hopefully it won't pass.
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Has it crossed your mind that they might be dead set against it because it is going to make them vastly more accountable for their work, and therefore their working lives won't be as easy?
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Has it crossed your mind that they might be dead set against it because it is going to make them vastly more accountable for their work, and therefore their working lives won't be as easy?
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Yes improvements have been made around accountability and governance but the implementation of this is what is concerning. There is no consensus on the authorisation process and what the role of the CCG (clinical commissioning group) is. The Bill outlines these improvements but in it's current state there is NO policy on how it will be implemented. It will make senior doctors and surgeons turn to more private work in the long run and harm patient care of the most vulnerable in society.
 
Ahleckz said:
A expensive, inefficient, money trap? It needs to be reformed, there is no doubting that. The discussion we need to be having is what type of reform is best needed. The NHS as it currently is not good.
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Yes, I agree there needs to be reform of the NHS but this Bill isn't the "magic pill" the PM is making it out to be. Political interference isn't going to help! There needs to be input from us on the ground and those who are involved in the day to day provisioning of healthcare and resources.

PanMaster said:
The NHS needs to start charging. Health professionals shouldn't be wasting time on drunkards or idiotic patients with minor ailments.

Reform is needed badly.
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Have you worked in A&E on a Friday/Saturday night...:rolleyes:
 
shadow_boxer said:
Yes, I agree there needs to be reform of the NHS but this Bill isn't the "magic pill" the PM is making it out to be. Political interference isn't going to help! There needs to be input from us on the ground and those who are involved in the day to day provisioning of healthcare and resources.



Have you worked in A&E on a Friday/Saturday night...:rolleyes:
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Agreed. I was getting at your point of the NHS as we know it being destroyed. I inferred from that that you thought any reform which changed the fabric of the NHS from what it is today would be a bad thing.

You are also right that it is the nurses, doctors and support staff that need to be the ones driving the discussion. However, the Unions seem to refuse to do this for them.
 
They need to review it from the ground up working with staff not just short quick fixes that Cameron has proposed. Even the medical professionals thinks its terrible.
 
Ahleckz said:
Agreed. I was getting at your point of the NHS as we know it being destroyed. I inferred from that that you thought any reform which changed the fabric of the NHS from what it is today would be a bad thing.

You are also right that it is the nurses, doctors and support staff that need to be the ones driving the discussion. However, the Unions seem to refuse to do this for them.
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Yes, one of the things that healthcare professionals are unhappy with is really the lack of consultation and the level of political interference. Many doctors' concerns is that the Bill won't benefit patients. GP's for example do want a say on how funding within a trust affects their patients but don't want it to be Policy. In principle yes GPs would want to have a say in commissioning (CCGs) but the reality is completely different. It will take doctors out of consultation rooms.

Efour2 said:
They need to review it from the ground up working with staff not just short quick fixes that Cameron has proposed. Even the medical professionals thinks its terrible.
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Agree.
 
Signed.

I'd be pushed to find an organisation that didn't need change, but these changes are ideologically driven & if you take some time to research who is behind these then it becomes pretty clear on the motive.

Also,

It's not that expensive when you compare the % of GDP we spend on healthcare compared to other developed nations.

The NHS has waste, yes - like any organisation - public or private.

I'd also be happy for myself & the rest of people who are earning well above the minimum wage to pay an extra few percent tax if needed, as it's better than the alternative.
 
elmarko1234 said:
Prove it won't.
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I can back up the argument that it won't with what's going on in the country today, as I did earlier in the thread.

You can also look at the progress of the Cumbria health trust, which as of two years ago is operating GP commissioning.

It isn't straight cut, sure, but it is more than substantial than the FUD most people (including you) come out with about the bad things which COULD and MIGHT happen.

Yes, we know things COULD and MIGHT happen - this goes without saying when you introduce a bill which gives freedoms and space rather than takes it away, for christ's sake. But we also know the disastrous effects when legislation is too restrictive and too tightly governed from the statute - we've been seeing it over the last decade and it has cost us tens of billions in literally wasted cash.
 
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