Argh, AMD/nVIDIA pricing is infuriating me

[two00lbwaster]

Hi everyone,

I've been around computers for over a decade now, but I'm starting to see a trend regarding AMD's latest GPUs' pricing that I don't like; I'm talking about the HD7000 series.

Because the HD7900 series is priced so highly due to its performance advantage over the GTX580 in most games, this has meant that AMD have increased the prices of the other series in the HD7000 generation out of sync with what we usually expect.
So, for example, where we might expect the HD7700 series to come in and replace the HD6700 series at the same price point, we are seeing them priced around the HD6800 series price point, which means that the only place for the forthcoming HD7800 series pricing is around the HD6900 series price point.

This means that we will continue to be paying the same amount for the same performance, and if we want more performance then we'll have to pay more and move up to the next bracket. This is completely at odds with what we have experienced up until now, in that we saw the introduction of a new node shrink as the sign of much increased performance in our price bracket.

Now I know that this may change when nVIDIA release their new cards, but, nVIDIA may just follow AMD's pricing lead and price their offerings accordingly and we all end up worse off for it; nVIDIA are also not free of guilt in this either, as their focus on larger monolithic dies means that they have been pushing up pricing at the high end for some time, which has dragged up costs on lower end cards.
(An example, the GTX260 216 I bought in 2008 cost less than £150, and the Palit Sonic GTX260 216 cards I got in 2009 were less than £120 but now you would struggle to get a GTX 560ti for less than £150; and no, the VAT increase doesn't account for all of that difference.)

I know that there are increased associated costs with severe supply constraints and low yields on the TSMC 28nm, which may decline over time, however, I still feel that this sets a very unwelcome precedent (not to mention that it also means that I'm going to have to wait even longer for my GTX260 SLI upgrade purchase to come to fruition.)

 

[Cooper]

So long as there are enough impatient morons willing to pay over inflated prices to satisfy their Epeen cravings, AMD/Nvidia have no reason to change.

 

[cmndr_andi]

I think the problem here is really lack of competition. In terms of the HD 7770 - the competing Nvidia card is really the GTX 460 1GB - this is a card first released in summer 2010. So AMD is aiming their new technology cards at what is effectively a fixed target - so they have no reason to drop prices.

This should change when Nvidia's 28nm mainstream cards arrive, as both companies will be able to cut prices - since manufacturing a GTX 460 level card on 28nm requires less die space - so lower manufacturing costs.

It is conceivable that Nvidia and AMD have formed a secret (and illegal) pact to fix GPU pricing while their profit margins go up - but I don't reckon this is too likely. Instead I think we have been stuck at 40nm for a long time and only now are the things starting to shift.

 

[edgedemon]

So long as there are enough impatient morons willing to pay over inflated prices to satisfy their Epeen cravings, AMD/Nvidia have no reason to change.

Easy to say that, but there are a lot of people waiting to see how kepler turns out, and if it is good, how many of them will wait? I know I won't wait for more than a month if it is that good...

 

[Freddie1980]

I think we all had to too good during the HD5000 series days and took it for granted that AMD would always price their new cards to undercut Nvidia. This was good for us but from AMD's shareholders POV all the card shortages basically translated to the AMD management had set the prices of their new cards to low and people would have been prepared to pay more and that's what we are seeing now.

If you don't want to pay the money for what AMD/Nvidia (or their partners) are asking then don't buy their product. If enough people are similar minded then companies will be forced to drop prices.

This should change when Nvidia's 28nm mainstream cards arrive, as both companies will be able to cut prices - since manufacturing a GTX 460 level card on 28nm requires less die space - so lower manufacturing costs.

I think manufacturing costs are only a part of it I would have thought Nvidia's ability to lower prices on it's Kepler cards will depend on how long it takes them to recoup the $2 billion they have invested into Keplers R&D.

 

[RanxZy]

Yes the AMD pricing is quite strange.

You got a 7950 which is about £70 less than a 7970 which really boggles my mind who would buy a 7950. Yes we all know that a 7950 is more then adequate for 1080p and OC to near 7970 levels but the pricing is so close that if you're going to spend that much on a GPU I don't understand why you can't save a little bit more and get a much more epic card which will OC to crazy performance.

Then the 78** series will most likely be priced around 6950 prices yet probably not offer much of an upgrade in performance on the 6950 if we take the 7770 as an example which you can get a 6850 for about the same price or less if you shop around.

It's kind of like they are ignoring the prices of their own cards from previous generations and just pricing them in the same price bracket with not much of an incentive of extra performance (in the case of 7770 and probably the 78** series)

 

[Davefran]

Hi everyone,

I've been around computers for over a decade now, but I'm starting to see a trend regarding AMD's latest GPUs' pricing that I don't like; I'm talking about the HD7000 series.

Because the HD7900 series is priced so highly due to its performance advantage over the GTX580 in most games, this has meant that AMD have increased the prices of the other series in the HD7000 generation out of sync with what we usually expect.
So, for example, where we might expect the HD7700 series to come in and replace the HD6700 series at the same price point, we are seeing them priced around the HD6800 series price point, which means that the only place for the forthcoming HD7800 series pricing is around the HD6900 series price point.

This means that we will continue to be paying the same amount for the same performance, and if we want more performance then we'll have to pay more and move up to the next bracket. This is completely at odds with what we have experienced up until now, in that we saw the introduction of a new node shrink as the sign of much increased performance in our price bracket.

Now I know that this may change when nVIDIA release their new cards, but, nVIDIA may just follow AMD's pricing lead and price their offerings accordingly and we all end up worse off for it; nVIDIA are also not free of guilt in this either, as their focus on larger monolithic dies means that they have been pushing up pricing at the high end for some time, which has dragged up costs on lower end cards.
(An example, the GTX260 216 I bought in 2008 cost less than £150, and the Palit Sonic GTX260 216 cards I got in 2009 were less than £120 but now you would struggle to get a GTX 560ti for less than £150; and no, the VAT increase doesn't account for all of that difference.)

I know that there are increased associated costs with severe supply constraints and low yields on the TSMC 28nm, which may decline over time, however, I still feel that this sets a very unwelcome precedent (not to mention that it also means that I'm going to have to wait even longer for my GTX260 SLI upgrade purchase to come to fruition.)

As seen in many other threads the Release price of the HD7770 is LOWER than the Release price of the HD6770 when it came out.
The price of the HD6770 now is irrelevant, you can only compare that to the price the HD7770 will be selling for when it gets replaced by the next gen cards.

 

[Freddie1980]

Yes the AMD pricing is quite strange.

You got a 7950 which is about £70 less than a 7970 which really boggles my mind who would by a 7950. Yes we all know that a 7950 is more then adequate for 1080p and OC to near 7970 levels but the pricing is so close that if you're going to spend that much on a GPU I don't understand why you can't save a little bit more and get a much more epic card which will OC to crazy performance.

Then the 78** series will most likely be priced around 6950 prices yet probably not offer much of an upgrade in performance on the 6950 if we take the 7770 as an example which you can get a 6850 for about the same price or less if you shop around.

I agree I suspect the 7800 prices will be around current 6900 prices but why would/should AMD set give us 6900 performance for 6800 prices? It's of no benefit to them and they have no reason to move prices at the moment, they might as well manufacture the same cards that give the same performance and bag the savings. AMD exists to make money they don't exist to give the likes of me and you everyday bargains (although AMD over the years has given us plenty of those).

 

[Jono8]

Just wait until nvidia release their cards and then everything will go back to normal.

 

[flopper]

Nvidia done this for decade nothing new.
get your savings up before cards are out

 

[dave_beast]

You can get a 7970 for sub £400 now btw

 

[PGdude]

The 7800s won't outperform the 6950. The 69** will be about for a bit.

 

[RanxZy]

The 7800s won't outperform the 6950. The 69** will be about for a bit.

Well I hope if they don't outperform the 6950 they will be priced less than it as that would make sense unlike with the 7770 where you can get a similar performing card for around the same price if not less (6850).

 

[Randomface74]

Just need peeps to buy what they need, that's enough to play games.

You don't need to be #1 in the benchmarks thread.

You don't need settings on Ultra either. Most of the time it makes the game harder to play.

Now imagine a situation where everyone buys the 560Ti, and nobody buys anything faster.

What will they do with the 570, 580, 7950, 7970, etc.. ?

 

[TheRealDeal]

The 7800s won't outperform the 6950. The 69** will be about for a bit.

I think at stock you are correct but i would put money on them overclocking really well. Overclocking the 69xx cards never really gave that much benefit where as gnc cores really seem to benefit. So overall for us guys that like to overclock i reckon they will be better and especially where dx11 is concerned.

 

[PGdude]

I think at stock you are correct but i would put money on them overclocking really well. Overclocking the 69xx cards never really gave that much benefit where as gnc cores really seem to benefit. So overall for us guys that like to overclock i reckon they will be better and especially where dx11 is concerned.

Lets hope so. I'd still be out for something that performs better than the 69**, but only when the price is right.

 

[two00lbwaster]

As seen in many other threads the Release price of the HD7770 is LOWER than the Release price of the HD6770 when it came out.
The price of the HD6770 now is irrelevant, you can only compare that to the price the HD7770 will be selling for when it gets replaced by the next gen cards.

Well, officially the HD6770 was never released, it was an OEM part that partners started shipping at some undefined point; probably when they exhausted their stocks of outer boxes with the HD5770 art.

The release day pricing for the HD5770 and HD7770 seem to be pretty similar though.

Just need peeps to buy what they need, that's enough to play games.

You don't need to be #1 in the benchmarks thread.

You don't need settings on Ultra either. Most of the time it makes the game harder to play.

Now imagine a situation where everyone buys the 560Ti, and nobody buys anything faster.

What will they do with the 570, 580, 7950, 7970, etc.. ?

This is true, however, I'm getting three Dell U2312HMs soon and I'd at least like something that can power those at native resolutions without having to resort to the lowest settings on everything in BF3.

Lets hope so. I'd still be out for something that performs better than the 69**, but only when the price is right.

I'm looking for something in that performance bracket for about £100-150.

 

[tommybhoy]

Just wait until nvidia release their cards and then everything will go back to normal.

Wishful thinking, can't see it tbh.

Current 69**/5** cards are ample for 1080p which is what the majority of gamers are using. There will be less folks upgrading due to this factor and AMD/Nvidia will be pricing higher to recover costs from said reduced sales and to pay for the higher chip/wafers of the 28nm process.

The 7800s won't outperform the 6950. The 69** will be about for a bit.

This.

The 7900 series are AMD's top end!
The 6900 series is now the upper mid-range!
The 7800 series shall be the mid-range and priced as such.
The 7700 series shall be the lower mid-range.
The 6700/6600 series are mainstream!

Also as stated above, I'm 110% certain Nvidia and AMD are in bed with each other regarding pricing AND performance.

Performance has been too close for a long while now, a while back there was mention of the secret emails between each other.

It's funny how the consoles gpu's can render more triangles than the PC using the same much much older slower tech, but that's not AMD/Nvidias fault of course...

... not that they are forcing us to upgrade our our gpus.

They are both at it and we are the mugs who let them away with it.

 

[gurusan]

Don't get why people keep whining. It's normal for the expensive flagship stuff to arrive first and pricing is the same as it's always been.

The 7970 is the same price as the GTX 580 3GB but it's a much better card.
The 7950 is just a tad more expensive than the GTX 570 2.5GB but again, it's a far better card.

 

[bridder]

Just need peeps to buy what they need, that's enough to play games.

You don't need to be #1 in the benchmarks thread.

You don't need settings on Ultra either. Most of the time it makes the game harder to play.

Now imagine a situation where everyone buys the 560Ti, and nobody buys anything faster.

What will they do with the 570, 580, 7950, 7970, etc.. ?

Couldn't agree more.

This is true, however, I'm getting three Dell U2312HMs soon and I'd at least like something that can power those at native resolutions without having to resort to the lowest settings on everything in BF3.

Just no. I bought 3x U2412Ms at Christmas along with a 6950 and you don't have to go down to the lowest settings, medium with some high and even 2xAA on some games with morphological on Deus Ex HR, I realise I am not the keenest gamer and aren't playing the latest games but there is this mindset on here that I don't get, it has to be the dogs on ultra settings etc, I'm with billy from above. I know we aren't all the same and obviously my criteria for IQ must be well below average but honestly, Dirt2, Deus Ex HR, UT3, TrackMania and Grid look absolutely fantastic at 5760x1200 and are more than playable, that's native res and 1200 vertical as opposed to 1080 on the 23" Dells...

Again I realise that some games are more intensive but you can just drop down to playing on a single monitor for the ones that you have trouble with performance wise or with eyefinity, or is it me? am I just a miser?

regards,
J.