**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

SheepBeast said:
Nice one well done :). High plat myself, hoping to move up to diamond this season. I've been out of the game for months though so I'm really rusty. The metagame's changed a lot since 'back in my day'.

Recently discovered how to pwn protoss. 2 rax pressure, add medivacs and elevator your army between his main and natural, and expand behind it. Haven't lost a TvP since I started doing that.

Even if they 4 gate your first dudes hit before their 2nd-4th gateways are finished so you can almost always do some decent damage, unless you're unlucky and they happened to warp in a sentry at the perfect time but meh, no strat is perfect.
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2 rax is such a pain to hold off. The only way I can manage it is with an early robo and hope he's overdone it with the marauders, or rely on some decent sentry splits. Either way he's probably expanding behind it and delaying my own, so I have to kill the first terran push rather than make him retreat if I want a decent footing in the game at all. And then he's almost certain to have his medivacs before my Colossi / Templar (depending which way I go - I prefer Templar at the moment as most lower league Terrans can't counter them effectively with ghosts), so any big second push is also a pain in the arse. I also have to account for the possibility that he's not teching (beyond stim, shield etc) so I may have to delay my own tech to bolster my forces or he can just a-move in.

It really is the hardest match-up for me at the moment. Although the frequency with which I come up against the 2-rax means that once I start dealing with it better, most games v Terran players will be easier.
 
PaddyMC89 said:
2 rax is such a pain to hold off. The only way I can manage it is with an early robo and hope he's overdone it with the marauders, or rely on some decent sentry splits. Either way he's probably expanding behind it and delaying my own, so I have to kill the first terran push rather than make him retreat if I want a decent footing in the game at all. And then he's almost certain to have his medivacs before my Colossi / Templar (depending which way I go - I prefer Templar at the moment as most lower league Terrans can't counter them effectively with ghosts), so any big second push is also a pain in the arse. I also have to account for the possibility that he's not teching (beyond stim, shield etc) so I may have to delay my own tech to bolster my forces or he can just a-move in.

It really is the hardest match-up for me at the moment. Although the frequency with which I come up against the 2-rax means that once I start dealing with it better, most games v Terran players will be easier.
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You guys must be doing something wrong. I get stomped all over by a protoss even if I 2 rax and they take an early expand (this is in diamond). As long as you don't take a super greedy expo before your first gateway you should easily have enough to hold it off. What time is it hitting at, with the first 2 mauraders or later? A few zealots, stalkers and 1-2 sentries is enough. Worst case scenario you lose your expo but that hardly even happens if you're macroing well. If you haven't expanded, 1 sentry is enough to hold the ramp into your main until you have enough to bust out (usually with first immortal).
 
So i've just started playing this online and am really enjoying it. Still in the practise league atm, played 11 games and won 8.

I would like to get a decent understanding of the game before going into ranked matches, so does anyone know of a good resource of information/tactics/guides etc for multiplayer?

I found some youtube videos explaining build orders, so i'm just using the basic MMM terran build. After the build runs out i'm kinda swinging in the wind at that point, not sure what to use next or like which units im supposed to use if he goes with something, like i should get Y if he has gone for X if you get me?
 
frankmcg said:
You guys must be doing something wrong. I get stomped all over by a protoss even if I 2 rax and they take an early expand (this is in diamond). As long as you don't take a super greedy expo before your first gateway you should easily have enough to hold it off. What time is it hitting at, with the first 2 mauraders or later? A few zealots, stalkers and 1-2 sentries is enough. Worst case scenario you lose your expo but that hardly even happens if you're macroing well. If you haven't expanded, 1 sentry is enough to hold the ramp into your main until you have enough to bust out (usually with first immortal).
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The first few units rarely do significant damage unless the toss has fast expoed. The real hurt starts when the medivacs arrive, and the terran can lift his army around and harass the toss with impunity, meanwhile expanding back at his base. The point in the pressure is just to deny/delay the toss expo while the terran gets one up, after which it's just a macro win.

That said, this build is auto win against any kind of tech cheese like fast VRs or DTs
 
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SheepBeast said:
The first few units rarely do significant damage unless the toss has fast expoed. The real hurt starts when the medivacs arrive, and the terran can lift his army around and harass the toss with impunity, meanwhile expanding back at his base. The point in the pressure is just to deny/delay the toss expo while the terran gets one up, after which it's just a macro win.

That said, this build is auto win against any kind of tech cheese like fast VRs or DTs
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OK so you're talking about a medivac push around the 10 min mark? Can be a bit quicker but the terran is cutting corners to get there. You should have 2 bases up and running by then so turtling on 2 bases is no bad thing for a few mins at least until you get colossus out etc. Then you should be able to break out. If he's doing drops just leave a few stalkers on your main mineral line and keep an observer over their army to check where they're pushing.

But yes it is an auto win against cheese, but that's because most cheeses are semi all-ins. The flip side is that if they aren't prepared for eg DTs then you auto win, so swings and roundabouts!
 
billysielu said:
I'd quite like some peeps to 1v1 against.

Like many others I have no real desire to ladder, but I do want to improve and get a feel for how good I am.

You peeps do that sort of practice here?

Is there a chat channel?

Campion 562
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Occasionally there are a few practice matches :). The chat channel is OcUK. Not much official though, really need to set up another tournament..

Whenever I'm online feel free to give me a shout for a couple practice games: VoidPtr 167. I generally hang around the channel.
 
frankmcg said:
OK so you're talking about a medivac push around the 10 min mark? Can be a bit quicker but the terran is cutting corners to get there. You should have 2 bases up and running by then so turtling on 2 bases is no bad thing for a few mins at least until you get colossus out etc. Then you should be able to break out. If he's doing drops just leave a few stalkers on your main mineral line and keep an observer over their army to check where they're pushing.

But yes it is an auto win against cheese, but that's because most cheeses are semi all-ins. The flip side is that if they aren't prepared for eg DTs then you auto win, so swings and roundabouts!
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No. 2 rax pressure from about 5-6min onwards. Keep pumping out m&ms (one rax with a tech lab, the other with no attachments just building marines) and rallying to the front of the enemys base. Build a starport ASAP and get 2 medivacs, meanwhile using spare minerals to start a CC in your base. Use medivacs to harass protoss while you expand safely.

If they've got an expo up and managed to turtle successfully against your early pressure, the medivacs will be even more effective as you just have to lift your army between his main and natural and they can't defend both at the same time with enough troops to kill your army in the medivacs.
 
First rax gets a reactor with your first amount of gas, 2nd rax gets a tech lab.. research Conc Shells and attack with your first maurader and about 5 marines...

Yes this will not kill him but as Sheep Beast said the point is basically to force your opponent to build units instead of any tech / his natural expansion... during this you build a factory, a reactor on that while your startport builds... quick swap and 2 medivacs, get up your own natural and a combat shield and stim...

usually by this time the protoss has forced your harrasing army back and is just beginning to build up.. at which point you come in with 2 medivacs full of units and cripple whatever is unguarded... he will then counter attack you, you defend with your far superior economy and tech and then finish him off.
 
Lol I love it when rubbish players rage quit, latest called me a "mono blatta noob player". Was quite happy with my 50:50 hydra roach army that beat down that toss (I even stuck an infestor out on the field and got 2 fungals off). :D
 
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DJammyRasta said:
First rax gets a reactor with your first amount of gas, 2nd rax gets a tech lab.. research Conc Shells and attack with your first maurader and about 5 marines...

Yes this will not kill him but as Sheep Beast said the point is basically to force your opponent to build units instead of any tech / his natural expansion... during this you build a factory, a reactor on that while your startport builds... quick swap and 2 medivacs, get up your own natural and a combat shield and stim...

usually by this time the protoss has forced your harrasing army back and is just beginning to build up.. at which point you come in with 2 medivacs full of units and cripple whatever is unguarded... he will then counter attack you, you defend with your far superior economy and tech and then finish him off.
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Pretty much this. I've been getting a tech lab on the first rax after buying 2 marines (I think, I basically wing it) and no attachments on the 2nd. Not sure I'd have enough gas for a reactor too, when do you get your 2nd gas up?

EDIT: here is a replay of me approximating this build http://drop.sc/116049 (I say approximating because I screwed it up, and my macro was beyond horrible)
 
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Gzero said:
Lol I love it when rubbish players rage quit, latest called me a "mono blatta noob player". Was quite happy with my 50:50 hydra roach army that beat down that toss (I even stuck an infestor out on the field and got 2 fungals off). :D
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I did the iEchoic build in a TvT recently and it got to late game, so I was basically massing hellions and battlecruisers, with just a few vikings as the enemy had none of his own. He was going marine tank with a couple of thors. Our eco was pretty similar so our armies were comparable in the final engagement but I absolutely roflstomped all over his army :). He ran his marines forward to attack my BCs so my hellions just fried them all, then I yamato'd the thors and it was gg.

After the game he called me a noob and a fag, and said I should l2p instead of just massing 2 units. (this despite him basically massing 2 units as well and not even attempting to counter what I was doing). pmsl.
 
Winning with something like Battlecruisers or Carriers almost always infuriates the opponent and puts you on the end of some sort of abuse. Just because the units aren't used much at all, if they've let the game get to a point where you can get enough of those units to beat him then it's entirely their fault.

People seem to think with this game that if you aren't trying to replicate the build orders and unit compositions of the top players, you're doing it wrong. No: if my army beats your army, I am not doing it wrong.
 
PvT to hold off 2 rax:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285834

Warpgate finishes at ~6 mins, just as a 2 rax pressure hits. You have to get the timings almost perfect though, and you can't afford to lose any units when scouting.
I've had some games where I lost my natural then transitioned into a 4 gate, or 3-4 gate + robo counter and still won.

2 rax expand is a popular opening, and 1 gate FE also gives you the best chance of holding a 1/1/1, and your economy is in good shape against 1 rax FE.
 
PaddyMC89 said:
People seem to think with this game that if you aren't trying to replicate the build orders and unit compositions of the top players, you're doing it wrong.
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True although in TvT battlecruisers are quite common in late game unless both players are just doing siege tank viking.

No: if my army beats your army, I am not doing it wrong.
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Or at least in the lower leagues (inc. my league plat), "I'm doing it less wrong than you" :D
 
JIM_BOB7813 said:
PvT to hold off 2 rax:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285834

Warpgate finishes at ~6 mins, just as a 2 rax pressure hits. You have to get the timings almost perfect though, and you can't afford to lose any units when scouting.
I've had some games where I lost my natural then transitioned into a 4 gate, or 3-4 gate + robo counter and still won.

2 rax expand is a popular opening, and 1 gate FE also gives you the best chance of holding a 1/1/1, and your economy is in good shape against 1 rax FE.
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Exactly. Just watched the replay from above and I'm afraid the protoss was just terrible. He didn't expand until the 13 min mark by which time he had all of one colossus out. A decent protoss (at my level at least) will have 2 bases up, a 3rd on the way and 3-4 colossus by that point, which would have just rolled you. See replay in the link below including him holding off my 2 rax pressure with ease (I do it slightly differently with a reactor rax and tech lab rax).

And as I said, terran is cutting corners (in this case an expo) to get medivacs that early. The protoss went for a 3 gate robo and then didn't do anything with it despite that being close to an all in 1 base build.

http://www.mediafire.com/?8ju86iybobz8ch3
 
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http://drop.sc/116477

...would you guys mind having a watch of this replay and giving me some feedback about my playing. That's one of the best games I've played in a while, really enjoyed it and felt I played pretty decent. Obviously though I've a long way to improve so what would you say I should have done different? (I am the Terran in the replay). I don't mean things like "shouldn't have got supply blocked" or "should have kept your minerals lower at time X" as I know these are flaws in my play. What I want tips on are things like my overall strategy, building and unit placement, tech choices and scouting, how I respond to things etc. Things I might not realise myself that I could be doing better. Thanks in advance :D
 
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welshdragon said:
Really enjoying at the moment playing random. Unlocking a whole load of achievements and learning counters much faster/better.
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I don't have the balls to play random tbh although I'd love to. I'm high platinum (hopefully diamond soon) as Terran. Probably low platinum as Protoss and honestly gold or silver as Zerg, I suck so much as them. If I started playing random the other races would drag me down.

Random in team games is fun though :)
 
SheepBeast said:
Pretty much this. I've been getting a tech lab on the first rax after buying 2 marines (I think, I basically wing it) and no attachments on the 2nd. Not sure I'd have enough gas for a reactor too, when do you get your 2nd gas up?

EDIT: here is a replay of me approximating this build http://drop.sc/116049 (I say approximating because I screwed it up, and my macro was beyond horrible)
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A standard 13 refinery works out perfectly like this, you have 50 gas just as your barracks finishes, then enough for the tech lab as soon as the 2nd rax is done and then can afford conc shells and a maurader as soon as that is done... Second gas is built at the same time as your factory.

Lost for the first time doing this yesterday... pushed in, forced the protoss to send his probes to help drive me off but in true protoss fashion he then built 10 units instantly and his counter attack killed me before i could get my medivacs to start dropping his base.

Think next game if the first battle is close i will get a couple of bunkers at my own base, a proxy pylon allows for him to counter very quickly
 
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