ANOTHER shooting at a US school

[Davepen]

I even gave you a nice get out of looking like a silly card, but you've gone and jumped right in there.

According to Wiki (references at the bottom so you can explore the dataset yourself). The USA ranks higher than the UK in the UN Education Index. It places it at rank 20 (we're 30), out of 179. That's a fair bit above the average.

Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

Well then I guess I am the uneducated one

What are your views on it? I really can't see reason for it.

You would think access to guns = gun deaths, but it does not seem to directly collate.

Obviously it is a massive factor, as if you don't have access to guns then you aren't going to go kill with them.

 

[DcD]

Perhaps, but this has nothing to do with education. Just because some students know more about algebra or thermodynamics doesn't mean they also gain a greater sense of ethics.

This is true.

 

[RomanNose]

I hate it when the media blame something other than the guy who did it. It's nothing to do with computer games, it's to do with a grade A crazy loon.

 

[Pestilence]

Perhaps, but this has nothing to do with education. Just because some students know more about algebra or thermodynamics doesn't mean they also gain a greater sense of ethics.

They'd probably have a higher kill count, advanced knowledge of physics pulling off supreme ricochet headshots et al.

 

[RomanNose]

They'd probably have a higher kill count, advanced knowledge of physics pulling off supreme ricochet headshots et al.

What about projectory, clearly that is more important than understanding how rebounds work?

 

[Ahleckz]

Well then I guess I am the uneducated one

What are your views on it? I really can't see reason for it.

You would think access to guns = gun deaths, but it does not seem to directly collate.

Obviously it is a massive factor, as if you don't have access to guns then you aren't going to go kill with them.

The easy access to guns is obviously the main concern. But what turns someone who has access to guns into a maniac that wants to shoot up a school? Societal pressures, a failing of the system, lack of support, the fact that person might just be a bit loopy? Any of the above could be argued. I think that we have to remember that a school shooting is extremely rare. The media would have us believe that there's a school getting shot up every hour of every day but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Pestilence]

What about projectory, clearly that is more important than understanding how rebounds work?

That too. Rather than an angsty spray-fest you have a gang of dorks going all out like Equilibirum's Clerics crossed with an assassin from Wanted.

 

[D.P.]

It would make more sense to compare the US with Canada than the UK, due to access to firearms.

No actually, every piece of documentation or statistic I can see, per head, Canada, and every other country in the world, is much, much lower than the US.

Can you post these statistics and documentation so we can have some real data to look at?

As I said, I had a look at Wikipedia and totaled up the number of school shootings for the US and Canada and the ratio is approximately the same as the ratio of the populations.

Looking at other countries in the world will give a different picture. In general, european countries will show a lower incident rate per head of population, likely due to tighter gun control, but if you looked at say south America then there is probably very different stats again.

You also have to be careful and take into account incidents involving knives, machetes or bombs etc., don't forget horrific events like this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/8/newsid_2496000/2496685.stm



Now, don't get me wrong. I am absolutely 100% against widespread gun ownership, I am very glad they are banned in the UK and wish that far tighter restrictions are in place in the US. I am afterfall from Dunblane and have near-enough first hand experience of school shootings (I was 1st year of the higher school so luckily just missed being in the same school). But when people brandish silly comments about americans they seem to ignore some important facts, there are 10 times as many americans as many other countries like canada, so you will get 10x the number of crazy incidents purely n the odds.

 

[D.P.]

I even gave you a nice get out of looking like a silly card, but you've gone and jumped right in there.

According to Wiki (references at the bottom so you can explore the dataset yourself). The USA ranks higher than the UK in the UN Education Index. It places it at rank 20 (we're 30), out of 179. That's a fair bit above the average.

Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

Thank you, was about to post the same thing.

Funny how Brits always go on about stupid uneducated Americans, when they have a higher average education ate than the UK and almost every other country in the world.

 

[spudbynight]

I still can't think of a reason why civilians should have guns.

 

[Ahleckz]

I still can't think of a reason why civilians should have guns.

Bar farmers, nor can I.

 

[Robbo]

Easy gun access and mentally unstable people is a combination that will never end well. Unfortunately you can't really stop the latter, but you can try and stop the former.

That said, I'm not particularly against people owning guns, but it needs to be far more difficult than it is right now. I think that the majority of people wouldn't be able to provide a good reason for having one.

 

[D.P.]

I still can't think of a reason why civilians should have guns.

Agreed.

And I am not against people shooting a gun. they can drive to a secured gun club and shoot some guns in the safety of the shooting range and then drive home empty handed. makes everything so much simpler, safer and easier.

 

[Vulcan]

I still can't think of a reason why civilians should have guns.

Because they enjoy shooting, it may be more a dangerous hobby than most, but that doesn't mean it should be banned solely for that reason.

 

[D.P.]

Bar farmers, nor can I.

Most farmers don't even bother with a gun.
Both my sisters are vets, whenever a farmer has a very sick/injured animal they will call a vet out who will give a free examination of the animal and if they think euthanasia is the best option then the animal gets put down by lethal injection in an entirely painless manner.
Most farmers don't want the hassle of dealing with a gun.

The days of foxes getting into the chicken coop are long gone, chicken farms are large industrial processes.

 

[D.P.]

Because they enjoy shooting, it may be more a dangerous hobby than most, but that doesn't mean it should be banned solely for that reason.

The why not have the guns locked up in a secure gun club at all times, then you can go whenever you want to shoot.

There is absolutely no reason to have a gun in your house.
If you want something to look at then a deactivated/non-functional weapon is fine to go on the mantle piece.

 

[D.P.]

Easy gun access and mentally unstable people is a combination that will never end well. Unfortunately you can't really stop the latter, but you can try and stop the former.

That said, I'm not particularly against people owning guns, but it needs to be far more difficult than it is right now. I think that the majority of people wouldn't be able to provide a good reason for having one.

Can you show me the evidence where Americans are mentally unstable?

 

[fez]

Those education ratings are rather crap aren't they?

"The Education Index is measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weighting). The adult literacy rate gives an indication of the ability to read and write"

American english is a lot easier to learn than ours and its not whether everyone can read and write, its how intelligent they are. If America was a third world country that weighting might be valid but as it is, it's a fairly useless metric.

Its akin to saying that based on the number of people that play football in America compared to England makes them a better football nation. It doesn't bear any particular link to the talents of the participants which is what we are after.

I doubt that America does have any worse an education system that us but their further education kills ours.

 

[Robbo]

Can you show me the evidence where Americans are mentally unstable?

That isn't what I said.

A mentally unstable American will have relatively easy gun access.

 

[fez]

Can you show me the evidence where Americans are mentally unstable?

Hes not saying that "American are unstable", just that some are. Every country has mentally unstable people, we just don't have a gun in every home. Are you intentionally misinterpreting his post because I can't see how you read that as a generalisation about all Americans.