I totally agree with the doctors point when talking about newborns that 'ending their lives is no different to abortion' - that's where our views end.
I haven't read the whole thread but abortion is simply mankind playing with things they shouldn't - we are not God.
So why do we allow other things that alter the 'natural way of things'? Modern medicine is all about playing God, so why should it be allowed in one area but not another?
Current abortion is up to 24 weeks - a friend of mine was born at 23 weeks, survived and although has a couple of very minor related health issues, is in perfect health otherwise. When he was born he wasn't a fetus, he was an extremely premature baby and now is about the nicest guy I know, and godfather to our daughter.
That's an extreme, and very rare case. As for your emotive argument, it isn't relevant. Are you incapable of separating fact from emotion? If not, you probably shouldn't be in this discussion.
Justify it whichever way you like, abortion pre/post birth is murder, nothing less - the fetus is alive and then is 'removed' or terminated which is just a fancy word for murdered.
The law disagrees with you there, and the law is fact.
I understand there are times that the mothers health/life is at risk but these scenarios are so rare that from friends who are doctors they tell me this is not even a percentage of the total aborted, but this was the entire pro-abortion argument. The government gives a way out in any scenario by saying it will negatively effect the mothers mental state - TOO RIGHT, having a baby is damn hard but how would they feel if their parents aborted them!
If you have read the thread, and the article (which I doubt you have) then you'll see that the argument is that whilst a new born is a human, they are not a person. They do not have interests, awareness and everything else. It is impossible to harm them because they do not know what is being taken away from them. Taking away the life of a 10 year old aware person who has lived for those years is very different to ending the life of a few hour born newborn who has no realisation of what life is. Your argument is totally redundant.
Birthing risks are extremely commonplace and well documented. You've likely asked a very specific question to your friends (if you have even asked them) that agrees to your agenda. Just look at the number of C-Setions. They aren't always done for medical reasons, but the vast majority are and a large number of them happen each year.
The truth is in most cases that it is an inconvenience to have a child and this is the easy way out. People I know that have had abortions have had a variety of issues ranging from depression to problems conceiving and serious complications during future pregnancy - not always the case, but more common than people realise.
Who's interests are more important? That of a non aware new born that will not miss life or the mother, who could have serious emotional and physical problems due to giving birth or maintaining the life of a seriously ill child? The only person who matters in the scenario is the mother. She is the one who will be effected, not the new born. It is her who we need to listen to.
Having just witnessed the amazing journey of pregnancy, seeing my wife at 24 weeks and the scans etc, the thought of having our baby aborted was unthinkable - of course our circumstances were favorable and we wanted the child, but seeing our little girl moving around like a little mad thing just showed me that they aren't just a fetus at that age, they are a small child.
We opted out of the downs syndrome test as we wouldn't have aborted anyway.
I do feel for anyone who feels they have no way out other than having an abortion but there is always adoption and have personally only good experiences with relatives who have been adopted.
They are a fetus, it's simple scientific fact. Fetus is a definition, of which the thing inside the womb is one. Your friends experiences with adoption have been very fortunate, and isn't always the case (infact, I'd argue it's the exception). Adoption can have vast negative side effects for the birthing mother as well as the child. Those who are put up for adoption have a worse quality of life, on average, than those who are not. Plus, the mothers often suffer serious psychological trauma from the decision to put it up for adoption.
After birth abortion provides closure, and doesn't force the new born into having a poorer quality of life.
I have plenty of personal experience that can counter your emotive arguments - however we're discussing fact, science, and academia here.
