What is a hot hatch....

Conanius

Conanius

Conanius

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
12,946
Prompted by a post in another thread, I'm interested what the phrase 'Hot Hatch' means to most people.

To me it means

1 - Reasonably brisk to 60 (lets say 7 seconds or under, otherwise cars like the 106/205 GTI aren't going to be in this group)
2 - A fun, involving drive (not saying it has to have no driver aids, ABS etc allowed)
3 - Entertaining through corners (ability to hold a decent turn of speed)

I think the issue is you have such a wide grouping of what they can be with regards to performance.

I drove a Twingo Renaultsport 133 a few years back and whilst it definitely met points 2 and 3, it just didn't feel quick enough, regardless as to what its actual performance figures were. Would that then make it a warm hatch?

Equally, prior to that I've driven a Clio 182 Cup, and whilst it definitely met points 1 and 3, I actually didn't find it fun to drive as it was 'too easy/good'. Does that mean a hot hatch has to have some sort of quirk/short coming to be entertaining?

Interested to hear what your thoughts are ....
 
I would say anything that can hit 60 in under 7 seconds or thereabouts.

Although these days many 'hot hatchbacks' are doing 60 in 6 ( S3,MPS,Cupra R,Focus RS e.t.c)
 
Conanius said:
Prompted by a post in another thread, I'm interested what the phrase 'Hot Hatch' means to most people.

To me it means

1 - Reasonably brisk to 60 (lets say 7 seconds or under, otherwise cars like the 106/205 GTI aren't going to be in this group)
2 - A fun, involving drive (not saying it has to have no driver aids, ABS etc allowed)
3 - Entertaining through corners (ability to hold a decent turn of speed)

I think the issue is you have such a wide grouping of what they can be with regards to performance.

I drove a Twingo Renaultsport 133 a few years back and whilst it definitely met points 2 and 3, it just didn't feel quick enough, regardless as to what its actual performance figures were. Would that then make it a warm hatch?

Equally, prior to that I've driven a Clio 182 Cup, and whilst it definitely met points 1 and 3, I actually didn't find it fun to drive as it was 'too easy/good'. Does that mean a hot hatch has to have some sort of quirk/short coming to be entertaining?

Interested to hear what your thoughts are ....
Click to expand...

A clio 182 cup was not involving or fun to drive?

Anything that is designed to be a hot hatch, its pretty obvious when a manufacturer designs a hot hatch. Focus ST, Pug 306Gti, 182 etc etc
 
To me, a hot hatch is a 'performance' version of an ordinary hatchback, with driver-focussed handling and driveability traits, aimed at an enthusiast. Ideally also with a reasonable turn of speed.

The Fiesta ST, 106/205 GTI / Rallye are hot hatches IMHO, even they won't necessarily win many races in a straight line.
 
Image2.jpg


1: No, but 50-100+ is blistering :cool:
2: Definitely
3: Yup, ish - the back flexes a bit but still handles pretty well.

But then I'm biased ;)
 
Conanius said:
Equally, prior to that I've driven a Clio 182 Cup, and whilst it definitely met points 1 and 3, I actually didn't find it fun to drive as it was 'too easy/good'.
Click to expand...

Are you joking?

I hate Clios and am the last person in this forum who would ever buy one but even I had to admit it was genuinelly fun to drive - its the entire point?!
 
Conanius said:
wow, I remember the thread when you got that car !
Click to expand...

Been nearly 9 years :eek: really need to get it roadworthy again, especially after last weeks TG.

If not my car, then I really like the mk1 golf but never actually driven one so can't really compare. I have driven a clio 172, 205 gti and a couple of others that are ok but I just find mine more fun :)
 
[TW]Fox;21392502 said:
Are you joking?

I hate Clios and am the last person in this forum who would ever buy one but even I had to admit it was genuinelly fun to drive - its the entire point?!
Click to expand...

I knew this would pick up as a point of annoyance with some posters.

I can't place what it was. It was clearly a great car, I just didn't enjoy driving it. It was effortless to go fast. I'd imagine If it had a bit more soulful engine note I might have enjoyed it more, who knows.

That aside, I'd be a bloody idiot to claim it isn't close to the benchmark hot hatch.
 
i wouldnt call a tingo gt a hot hatch, its a super mini?

i always went by super mini's are things like the Corsa VXR, fiester ST, twingo ect.

next step up were the hot hatches, Civic type R's, Cupra's, Focus ST, Astra VXR ect.
 
Howard said:
To me, a hot hatch is a 'performance' version of an ordinary hatchback, with driver-focussed handling and driveability traits, aimed at an enthusiast. Ideally also with a reasonable turn of speed.

The Fiesta ST, 106/205 GTI / Rallye are hot hatches IMHO, even they won't necessarily win many races in a straight line.
Click to expand...

I think I would have to agree with this as my definition as well.
 
Conanius said:
I knew this would pick up as a point of annoyance with some posters.

I can't place what it was. It was clearly a great car, I just didn't enjoy driving it. It was effortless to go fast. I'd imagine If it had a bit more soulful engine note I might have enjoyed it more, who knows.

That aside, I'd be a bloody idiot to claim it isn't close to the benchmark hot hatch.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, it never felt like you needed to ring its neck, you certainly can but it isn't rewarding. Don't get me started on the driving position and the gearbox. :D But yes, very much a hot hatch. It's just not my cup of the proverbial hot-hatch-tea. In its defence to the Clio, neither is something the Mazda 3 MPS, rocket ship performance but numb steering feel - no thanks. Enjoyment and involvement > *. Like to drive a fresh Trophey though, trick motorsport-spec bushes and a winding road, yes please.

A big necessity if not the defining point for me for me in hot hatch after things like driving pleasure, running cost and looks is its practicality, it can't take from what the normal dull versions can do. Things like:

  • Take your big shop with ease and not have it all smashed when you get home.

  • Take your Gran to church without her feeling the need to think what she's going to say to St. Peter
  • Take 4-5 mates to the park and be able to impress them with your ability to light up the fronts and clip the apex of the roundabouts
  • Cruise on a motorway for a few hours without the need to smash your head into a pole after the trip.

Horses for courses, this is like the Coupé/hatchback argument, there's no clear defenition but certain cars cannot be denied to be exactly what they claim to be (Clio, Civic, Focus, Astra). But thinks like the ST170, Swift Sport and Panda 100 are in that palpable grouping of not cutting the mustard.
 
No need to make a storm in a teacup about it.

From the other thread I personally thought a Focus ST was warm-hot (read Not lukewarm, but not hot as a Focus RS is hot either)

I still maintain that opinion and there is no real metric I base that opinion on. It's an opinion.
 
I can't see how anyone can dispute the Focus ST is a hot hatch. It's the whole point and the reason why people tolerate its relentless thirst.

Next you'll be saying a Mk5 GTI isnt a hot hatch.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom