Matrimony as such has been around in culture since the dawn of time pretty much...wayyyyy before religion shoved a foot in it. You could even say animals have been observed to show signs of a similar sort of notion with the likes of penguins etc having life long partners.
The tolerant Catholic Church
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Matrimony as such has been around in culture since the dawn of time pretty much...wayyyyy before religion shoved a foot in it. You could even say animals have been observed to show signs of a similar sort of notion with the likes of penguins etc having life long partners.
What sort of era are you talking about? In religious terms Adam/Eve were the first people to live on earth so maybe you are referring to something else.
Marriage predates Western Religion by thousands of years and it is only recently that religion has claimed an authority over it....in Britain the vast majority of marriages were of a mutual consent nature requiring no ceremony other than stating their intention and binding to each other, the Church during the middle ages would record such marriages, but it was not required by law...it was not until the 16th century that religious or state ceremonies became necessary with the advent of the protestant reformation and the counter to that by the Catholic Church with the Council of Trent.
So basically, Marriage was not a religious or state matter until relatively recently.
In honesty Ringo id say that some single parent familys can come off better...please dont take me out of context here by the way as I know the implications of it, especially in terms of workload etc and without a doubt its a hard slog. But many single parent familys are happier than ones with two parents who are stuck in a dead marriage etc. Not ideal i guess but then neither are most familys.
But on another note i dont understand why its hard to accept same sex couples can have the same family values as those that are not. Surely they all adhere to the same morals and as long as people love each other i dont see why gay couples cant be a traditional family unit. I beleive the "supposed" breakdown of society and so on is the responsibility of individuals rather than a say a lack of family ethics and so on.
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Absolutely agree... being stuck in an unhappy marriage would be terrible for the children.
The thing here though is that as usual in the UK it is the minorities that bang on about equal/human rights blah blah. Yet the fact of having bars/clubs dedicated to gays could be taken as a breach of rights. It's all stupid.
One thing that is a human right is that a child should have the entitlement to have a mother/father. If a parent dies that is unfortunate, if they are orphaned that is even worse, but by an unnatural act of two people willfully removing a childs right to a mother/father is just wrong in my opinion. Now I know that isn't a popular stand to take in this day and age but I really do hold that view.
Another thing... for those straight folks that are in a normal marriage, what would it do to your family if it suddenly became lawful for a marriage to involve more than two people? Maybe that would be even more fun!
However, That would require a very simple and literal interpretation of Genesis, as well as accepting that by creating Eve from Adam, God was in fact 'marrying' them...as there was no 'marriage' as such mentioned in the Bible.....It can easily be interpreted that simply by their sexual union and the connection implied therein that they were 'married'....simply by consent of each other rather than permission given.
This was almost always the case prior to religion and state authority over marriage...it was simply a statement of consent between two people.
I am not using it as a history book. I used it to illustrate a point about how marriage is connected with religion. I am well aware of the fact that the vast majority of OCUK forums hate the very mention of the bible.
How would you interpret the mention of a wife in Genesis? Is a wife not simply the partner of her husband? To me wife implies that she is part of a marriage.
Soldato
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So you think that the Catholic Church is intolerant so you come out with a poorly disguised attack using the sex abuse perpetrated by a small number as a handy tool.
Did you know that the incidence of sex abuse inside the Catholic Church is lower than in the general populace?
You are not a Catholic Priest - by your twisted logic I guess that makes you a paedophile?
As is stands in a civil partnership one has exactly the same rights as you do in a marriage. There is nothing missing as far as "rights" are concerned.
This sort of crap is just the sort of thing the lavender mafia use to push their twisted agenda.
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You are showing yourself up to be small minded and hate filled. Have you looked in the mirror?
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You are a bigot and a nasty one by the sound of it.
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Have you ever read the book of fairytales? I'm assuming not. You might not believe it but when other historical writings back up much of what is contained it shows your ignorance.
O yes, and your 2nd paragraph sounds like it is fully of hate... yet paragraph 1... yeah - great guy.
Edit: so fast forward a few years and religion is no more. What does the world look like? Does everyone from the queen down have to publicly denounce the bible/religion? The book that the Queen would quote from in public? Would all church buildings be gone? Would people be burned at the stake for their beliefs? Would the country be all agnostic? Would there still be a moral standard?
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Soldato
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A man might as well marry his dog as marry another man.
There are civil partnerships in this country. There is no need to bring in Gay marriage.
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The Catholic Church doesn't approve of gays and never will, get over it
Incorrect.
The right not to be sexually abused?
Meh to put the shoe on the other foot why should a child be forced to have a mother and father...unfortunately the way nature works you just cant choose, so why should it be different with same sex couples. Obviously when it comes to adopting give the child a choice just like the current system works on whether they like their potential new parents and want to live with them or not, be they same sex or heterosexual. However when it comes to same sex couples having IVF etc I dont see the issue as its not like a newborn baby can choose whether it has a mother or father or two mothers etc, just like it cant choose whether its born in the UK, France, USA, Somalia and so on.
You keep on referring to this not being natural, however I really dont see any validation in that argument as surely the ammount of love two parents give a child will be the same be they gay or not and in my opinion thats the most important thing. As such i dont beleive letting same sex couples marry "subjects" their kids to anything just like i dont believe straight couples subject their kids to anything.
I just dont see where this distinction of choice comes from as its not like a baby chooses what family they are born into be they rich, poor, scummy or the nicest people on earth and as such dont see why it should be prevented. Assuming the child is in a loving responsible and caring family and grows up happy I dont see what more you could ask.
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Soldato
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Are you seriously too stupid to not understand the difference between an individual in the Church and the Church itself?
Seriously, because you sound like you might be that stupid.