Does anyone here pay 50p tax?

[D.P.]

Proponents of a flat tax system usually suggest a large personal allowance to go with it to take the poorest out of tax all together.

Exactly. You have something like 16,000 per year tax allow for a single person (or whatever value makes sense to pay for rent, utilities, food and basics), this can increase in more expensive areas and increase with children, of you care for an elderly or sick relative etc, etc.

This threshold is basically what constitutes are reasonable living standard.

A flat rate tax is actually much better for the poor, they can end up pay much less tax. Then you have a flat rat tax on the rest of the income above the threshold.

The more you earn above the threshold the more tax you pay in a linear and fair way. If you earn twice the amount above the living threshold you pay twice the tax, can't get fairer than that. The more disposable income you have the more VAT taxed items you buy and the lower your cost are to society, e.g. with private health care, and the more you contribute employment by hiring cleaning/gernening/DIY people.

 

[toshj]

or, they inherited it. got it because of who they know (not how good at the job they are). there are plenty of toffs on the old boys network

Bit of a generalisation there don't you think? Of all the 50% tax payers I know, none of them have achieved it through inheritence or sponging off their friends - it's all down to either pure hard work, or hard work combined with qualification...

 

[Mr Joshua]

The disparity between the lowest and highest earners in this society is mind boggling.

The situation is so out of hand the someone has to act to redress the balance, in this instance it is the state. If companies had fairer pay structures this wouldn't be required, the people at the bottom could possibly pay their fair share of tax, however, this would also mean the people at the top would see their wages fall and my guess is that this would be more than the 50p tax rate takes.

On the other hand we could cut more services as well as lowering taxes, I'd personally like to see this because there would be bloody anarchy on the streets. Then we will either see true reform or, as the war cry for some higher earners go, true survival of the fittest.

The amounts of money being discussed here is absolutely obscene.

 

[D.P.]

@"Originally Posted by robgmun
People should get a grip and not expect others to pay there way for them, and to also understand the rich get rich because they picked themselves up and worked there bloody ass off, or have the intelligence to get where they are. There's a lot of jealously in this thread"

or, they inherited it. got it because of who they know (not how good at the job they are). there are plenty of toffs on the old boys network

Inheritances and capitol gains are taxed differently so it is a mute point.


All the people I know in the top tax bands got there by working hard their entire lives doing 60 hour weeks, getting top grades at university by studying hard, taking initiative and pushing ideas through, never taking holidays, always trying to further themselves push their abilities, learn new skills.

 

[ObixConstant]

but the fact is that EVERYBODY cant do that. your dad also paid 50% for what? a couple of years... it hasnt been around for very long. im sure he is happier than the majority of people who work hard and have to live on minimum wage or average wage

would you prefer the poor to pay more than the rich? they already do, proportionally.

Who wouldn't be happier than people who have to work hard on minimum wage.


In the world I'd like to live in you should take home a majority of your pay regardless of the economic climate. The fact they're asking for 50% in the 1st place means the lower brackets tax rate should have been reduced in my opinion.

Screwing everyone over from top to bottom as far as I'm concerned, like I said though I'm heading out the country the second I'm in the top two bracket myself I can live with paying my 20% as it is but If I'm ever expected to pay close to 40% or more I'm out of here asap back to an acceptable 0-20% somewhere else in Europe.


I don't think the poor should pay more than rich but I believe I'd have the same opinion regardless of it being a personal issue. I don't want to see a billionaire pay 50% tax either... because no one should pay half or more of their income in taxes I don't care how much their earn in a year.

 

[sigma]

Screwing everyone over from top to bottom as far as I'm concerned, like I said though I'm heading out the country the second I'm in the top two bracket myself I can live with paying my 20% as it is but If I'm ever expected to pay close to 40% or more I'm out of here asap back to an acceptable 0-20% somewhere else in Europe.

I hear Greece is nice.

 

[Brookert]

For the tiny amount of money it would raise, it really isn't worth the 50% tax rate. What kind of message does that send out to the younger generations? Work hard and become successful, then kiss over half your earnings goodbye?

 

[robgmun]

Babelfish or, they inherited it. got it because of who they know (not how good at the job they are). there are plenty of toffs on the old boys network

myths like this really should be put to bed quite frankly, in the next 20 years a vast majorty of inherited millionares will be the kids of lottery winners who used to live in council neighbourhoods

 

[Tunney]

myths like this really should be put to bed quite frankly, in the next 20 years a vast majorty of inherited millionares will be the kids of lottery winners who used to live in council neighbourhoods

Most rich people come from rich families. They have access to the best education and can afford to work for free as they get a foot in the door. How many barristas come from working class families? From my experience, perhaps 20%.

Social mobility in this country is falling, not rising. Even in America things aren't great. Neither Steve Jobs nor Bill Gates came from a poor home. They had families who could afford to buy them expensive computers and foot the bill while they established themselves.

Be thankful that you were born in a first world country and, most probably, to middle class parents. You've had plenty of advantages in life.

 

[realBabelfish]

Bit of a generalisation there don't you think? Of all the 50% tax payers I know, none of them have achieved it through inheritence or sponging off their friends - it's all down to either pure hard work, or hard work combined with qualification...

i didnt mean all (it was in response to the guy saying that 50% taxers all worked really hard, and did much more than us average Joes). i know plenty of people who earn well into the 50% bracket and oddly almost all of them manage to fiddle everything they can to reduce it. they are all self made after starting up their own companies. i dont mind that (i work for one)

 

[Tefal]

The disparity between the lowest and highest earners in this society is mind boggling.

Why is it?

Do you really expect there not to be much of a gap between the shelf stacker and the head of the company employing 150,000 people?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

or, they inherited it. got it because of who they know (not how good at the job they are). there are plenty of toffs on the old boys network

That's interesting. How many of the 150,000 50% tax payers do you know who are 'toffs' and part of the 'old boys network' (please explain what that is) receive more than £150,000 per year through inheritance or 'got it because of who they know'.

 

[sigma]

Most rich people come from rich families. They have access to the best education and can afford to work for free as they get a foot in the door. How many barristas come from working class families? From my experience, perhaps 20%.

Social mobility in this country is falling, not rising. Even in America things aren't great. Neither Steve Jobs nor Bill Gates came from a poor home. They had families who could afford to buy them expensive computers and foot the bill while they established themselves.

Be thankful that you were born in a first world country and, most probably, to middle class parents. You've had plenty of advantages in life.

I thought Jobs' parents struggled to get him into the Uni that he wanted to go to?

Either way, we're all rich compared to the majority of Africa.

 

[Mr Joshua]

Why is it?

Do you really expect there not to be much of a gap between the shelf stacker and the head of the company employing 150,000 people?

Did I imply that?

Of course there should be a gap, but not to the extent that it exists at present.

 

[sigma]

Did I say that?

No, he asked you a question - well two, actually.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Most rich people come from rich families. They have access to the best education and can afford to work for free as they get a foot in the door.

Prove it.

 

[sigma]

Prove it.

Not quite proof but look at many of the top universities, a lot of the students there are from overseas or from private schools, so that means that their parents aren't usually poor.

 

[Floogie]

There aren't too many people in the 50% bracket because a lot of wealthy individuals find ways to avoid crushingly high tax rates, whether that be through layers of companies or offshore organisations or whatever. If you want to encourage that even more, creating penalising higher tax rates is one way to do it. If you make that avoidance particularly difficult, then people will go do things elsewhere. If people go, companies go, and if companies go, industries go.

Considering capital flight is the big concern, why isnt there any recent evidence supporting it apart from anecdotes?

As I've already said, most research into this suggests the 150k earners are employees. This is a group that has many significant barriers to mobility. Many will also be deterred from leaving due to them being granted license to practice in the UK market (doctors, lawyers, accountants) which affords them supernormal profit here. Their skills/knowledge may also well be UK-specific which not translate to such profitable employment in other countries.

So your argument that companies will scarper due to a lack of skilled workers, leaving dead industries behind, is unnecessary in that context.

Financial services has to offer sky-high pay and bonuses because they need the very best people to be able to compete; they aren't trying to beat Fred's Financials down the road, they are trying to be better than everybody else everywhere else in the world. If they cannot attract excellent people on the gobal scale because of the higher tax rates, then something like London's financial services industry has little reason to be there - a whizz trader who is offered twice as much after tax on Wall Street will move, and take all that tax haul and spend with him. If all the good people are in Wall Street or Frankfurt, why would you invest in the City?

I find it hard to take talk of the financial services being filled with "the very best people" seriously considering the untold damage they've done to the world economy in recent years.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Not quite proof but look at many of the top universities, a lot of the students there are from overseas or from private schools, so that means that their parents aren't usually poor.

You're right, that isn't proof

 

[sigma]

You're right, that isn't proof

Still a valid point.

How about you disprove the original point.