air and water are ok but..

[craarc]

we all know that water is more effeicient at removing heat than air, but ultimatley all water is doing is delaying the process of your pc heating up longer than an air cooled system. as when you water reaches the same temp as the temp in your room it will then gradually increase warming the ambient at the same amount untill everything is the same temp,

obviously the bigger the room the longer this will take but we cant increase the size of out rooms easily. yes you can open doors and windows in the winter but opening a window in the winter will have the same effect as having aircon on all the time. and in an attempt to kool your pc you may have to suffer cooler than comfortable room temps.
so water chiling is the only real answer to nice comfortable room temp and a cold pc.
what a long winded way of asking are there many options other than Hailea water chillers? as sometimes i dont really want to put the aircon on just to keep ambient temps down as the room warms up a hell of a lot

and if i can chill my water and keep pc kool but still in a comfortable room not to hot and not with ac on all day would be nicer

hailea or anyother ideas ?

 

[cammy5477]

Hailea

 

[Bubo]

I would have thought using a chiller will make the room even hotter if you aren't going to open a window or switch the air con on.

 

[KiiYzOo]

you'd need a very hot running pc to warm up your ambient temps, providing you're not using one single rad for a cpu + gpu loop

 

[craarc]

@ Bubo na all heat from a chiller will be put into my ac heat dump so direct extration outside not into the room or that would defeat the plan...

@ KiiYzOo agree but in time itll happen it depends on the volume of air in the roon a big room ofc take longer than a small one my pc room is like 12 feet x 10 feet and with no AC no windows open and no door open and AC of it doesnt take long to warm up ... even a couple degrees

@cammy5477

yes im leaning that way tbh are they the best or are there other option?

a few years ago promotetia (i think they were danish) phase change were the way to go but now seem somewhat defunct (think i spelt it right) now it seems,
Cooler Express Super Dual Evaporators are the way for ultimate day in day out cooling but i dont really want to go that route atm.

are Hailea pretty much where its at for watar chilling and yes i will be dumping heat outside not into the room ofc...

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Are you saying that watercooled components will eventually get as hot as the air cooled ones?
If so that must take quite a long time. The room with my PC in isn't much bigger than yours and I've been gaming most of the day on a Saturday/Sunday and even in the hot weather my GTX 480 hasn't gone over 60ºC, which I'm pretty sure an air cooled one would've.

Or did I misunderstand your point?

 

[Jokester]

The air in your room in turn heats the rooms walls - that's a extremely large cooling surface the walls then have with outside the room!

Water and air cooling heat the air just as much as each other, all other things being equal, the difference is that the deltaT for water is always substantially lower than that of air.

 

[craarc]

i am saying that eventually regardless of water or air the ambient will be the same as the pc temp yes. ofc itll take time all water does is buy you more time on the pc but by its nature water cooling removes more heat from the pc into the room and increase the room temp faster then air will.

therefore unless you increase the cooling of the room erither by surface area ie a larger room or by cooling the water or the air yes themn ofc they will be the same if left long enough

so

@GoogalyMoogaly yes i am saying that , and yes it does take a long time ofc longer in a big room than a small one

@thats where the size of room argument comes in but we cant just vary the size of room depending on our cooling needs.

hence the need to chill the air AC or chill the water..

 

[Jokester]

i am saying that eventually regardless of water or air the ambient will be the same as the pc temp yes. ofc itll take time all water does is buy you more time on the pc but by its nature water cooling removes more heat from the pc into the room and increase the room temp faster then air will.

therefore unless you increase the cooling of the room erither by surface area ie a larger room or by cooling the water or the air yes themn ofc they will be the same if left long enough

This is incorrect, both water and air will heat the air in the room just as fast as each other, a PC generates the same heat regardless of how it's cooled if it's running with the same settings.

Water will never ever reach the same temperature of air if left long enough, both air and water will heat the room air equally raising it's temperature to the point that the heat flow to the outside of the room is equal to the heat generated by the PC. This doesn't need to be that much of a deltaT as, even for a small room, the surface area of a room is 1-2 orders of magnitude bigger than say a typcial watercooling radiator.

If the room ambient temperature increase 2degC, then the water temps increase 2degC and so does the air temps, that gap never closes for the sorts of heat loads and temperatures we're talking about for PCs.

 

[craarc]

the air or water will eventually reach the ambient ofc it will it will just take longer depending on the volume i think you misread or i didnt explain well enough...

but the water will remove more heat from the pc is what i mean that heat if put into the room will heat the room at the same rate ofc .

water buys more time at the pc. given, but both will reach ambient room temp at some time if left alone long enough.

ofc the pc generates the same temp whether on water or air but the rate at which it is removed from the pc varies.

they will both reach the same temp if there is no external cooling effect... eventually the water will transfer its temp to the air in the room ( longer for a bigger room) and if the room gets no extra airflow or the water gets no extra cooling they will mormalize within a degree or two.

it will close if there are none of the above factors to promote extra cooling.

so what i am am tryin to say is +/- 1degree or so eventually water temp will = air temp. therefore the only way to minimise this effect is to

cool the air.. Airconditioning.. which i have but sometimes feels to cold,

or

chill the water.. hailea.. which i dont have.

but am thinking the hailea is the best way forward to eleviate the effect of the temp equalizing over time`. and still have a nice comfortable room temp as there will be less heat dump into the room from the cooling of the pc. so all the heat from the pc will go thru a water chiller then the heat generated from cooling the pc be dissapated outside..

so if thats the case which it is. what is the best water chiller to do the job? as i dont think i can stretch my room to slow down the effect of the pc water eventually reaching ambient if left to run which it eventually will. (again give or take 1 degeree or so) and i dont want my AC on all the time just to reduce ambient..

so its hailea or what ???

 

[joemo13]

If you are that bothered about your room heating up, why not just put the rads outside?

 

[Jokester]

the air or water will eventually reach the ambient ofc it will it will just take longer depending on the volume i think you misread or i didnt explain well enough...

No, what you're saying is wrong. When you cool your CPU with air or water, both are hotter than ambient, the difference is smaller for water, bigger for air.

but the water will remove more heat from the pc is what i mean that heat if put into the room will heat the room at the same rate ofc .

No, both water and air remove the same heat, just that air is less efficient at doing it directly. You're using water to transport the heat to somewhere where you can use a bigger air cooler in effect to remove the same amount of heat. The net effect is that you ultimately end up with air in the room the same temperature.

water buys more time at the pc. given, but both will reach ambient room temp at some time if left alone long enough.

ofc the pc generates the same temp whether on water or air but the rate at which it is removed from the pc varies.

It doesn't buy more time in the way you mean - a bigger res will maintain lower temps purely because there is more water to heat up in the short term but once heat loss from the water to air matches the heat gain from the CPU to water, it will still be a lower temperature than using air directly, by virtue of the much greater cooling surface area on a radiator.

they will both reach the same temp if there is no external cooling effect... eventually the water will transfer its temp to the air in the room ( longer for a bigger room) and if the room gets no extra airflow or the water gets no extra cooling they will mormalize within a degree or two.

it will close if there are none of the above factors to promote extra cooling.

so what i am am tryin to say is +/- 1degree or so eventually water temp will = air temp.

Just no. The water temp will always be hotter than the ambient air temperature. It's a fundamental requirement in order for heat to be transferred to the air from the water.

therefore the only way to minimise this effect is to

cool the air.. Airconditioning.. which i have but sometimes feels to cold,

or

chill the water.. hailea.. which i dont have.

but am thinking the hailea is the best way forward to eleviate the effect of the temp equalizing over time`. and still have a nice comfortable room temp as there will be less heat dump into the room from the cooling of the pc. so all the heat from the pc will go thru a water chiller then the heat generated from cooling the pc be dissapated outside..

so if thats the case which it is. what is the best water chiller to do the job? as i dont think i can stretch my room to slow down the effect of the pc water eventually reaching ambient if left to run which it eventually will. (again give or take 1 degeree or so) and i dont want my AC on all the time just to reduce ambient..

so its hailea or what ???

Where are you going to put the Heilea unit?

 

[Jokester]

If you are that bothered about your room heating up, why not just put the rads outside?

If you're purely worried about keeping your room cool, this is what you want to do as it removes the heat from your PC and transfers it to air somewhere else completely.

If you want sub-ambient temperatures in your PC, then a waterchiller or direct phase change cooler is the way to go. But both will increase heat generation, though with a chiller unit you can again place it in another room and then tube the cooled water back to your PC.

 

[craarc]

No, what you're saying is wrong. When you cool your CPU with air or water, both are hotter than ambient, the difference is smaller for water, bigger for air.

yes they are both hotter until it equalizes which in time it will


No, both water and air remove the same heat, just that air is less efficient at doing it directly. You're using water to transport the heat to somewhere where you can use a bigger air cooler in effect to remove the same amount of heat. The net effect is that you ultimately end up with air in the room the same temperature.

water removes more heat... but see your third sentance is what i mean about it normalizing eventually

It doesn't buy more time in the way you mean - a bigger res will maintain lower temps purely because there is more water to heat up in the short term but once heat loss from the water to air matches the heat gain from the CPU to water, it will still be a lower temperature than using air directly, by virtue of the much greater cooling surface area on a radiator.




it buys more time ofc it does water removes more heat from cpu than air therefore the time untill they all normalize is longer

Just no. The water temp will always be hotter than the ambient air temperature. It's a fundamental requirement in order for heat to be transferred to the air from the water.


Where are you going to put the Heilea unit?

doesnt really matter as long as the heat produced is disapated outside either thru current ac sytem or thru a separate external vent



and why cant i multi quote as i want do ....

 

[craarc]

No, what you're saying is wrong. When you cool your CPU with air or water, both are hotter than ambient, the difference is smaller for water, bigger for air.


No, both water and air remove the same heat, just that air is less efficient at doing it directly. You're using water to transport the heat to somewhere where you can use a bigger air cooler in effect to remove the same amount of heat. The net effect is that you ultimately end up with air in the room the same temperature.


It doesn't buy more time in the way you mean - a bigger res will maintain lower temps purely because there is more water to heat up in the short term but once heat loss from the water to air matches the heat gain from the CPU to water, it will still be a lower temperature than using air directly, by virtue of the much greater cooling surface area on a radiator.


Just no. The water temp will always be hotter than the ambient air temperature. It's a fundamental requirement in order for heat to be transferred to the air from the water.


Where are you going to put the Heilea unit?

If you're purely worried about keeping your room cool, this is what you want to do as it removes the heat from your PC and transfers it to air somewhere else completely.

If you want sub-ambient temperatures in your PC, then a waterchiller or direct phase change cooler is the way to go. But both will increase heat generation, though with a chiller unit you can again place it in another room and then tube the cooled water back to your PC.

yes pretty much sub ambient in pc to alleviate the room temp increase so at my AC ofc transfers heat externally i want the water chiller to do the same so a hailea or another type of unit will do the job

there is no point buying a water chiller to just dump the heat it produces in the room ofc it will be sent outside

need a couple of alternatives tho as eventually any heat dump in the room will normalize water temps in a system etc..

 

[Mightycamels]

I have only glanced over this thread but surely what you are talking about is assuming that the air inside a room is the same air all the time.

A new build house has ACH (Air Change per Hour) of roughly 1.75, older houses have an ACH of about 2.5.

Unless you are in an air tight room I don't think what you are saying is right and if you are you have more to worry about than a mildly warm PC

 

[craarc]

`heres a way i thought of explaining what i mean put a pc in a box regardless of whether the pc is water cooled or air cooled the air in the box will eventually heat up and reach the same temp depending on the size of the box it may take less or more time


i want to get the heat out of that box but keep my room at a nice temp which aircon cant always do..

so hailea or an alternative ? is what im looking for

 

[Jokester]

Yes they are both hotter until it equalizes which in time it will

I can catergorically state that they will not equalise with time. Water will always maintain it's temperature advantage over air, no matter how long you run your PC and how hot the ambient air temperature gets.

water removes more heat... but see your third sentance is what i mean about it normalizing eventually

Not in the way that you are saying though. When you first switch on a PC both the air cooler and a water loop will be at ambient and will imediately start to heat up. An air cooler will reach it's equilibrium in a matter of only a few minutes, for examples sake requiring a difference of 30C between it's temperature and the ambient air temperature to dissapate 100W. For the water loop it might only need a difference of 10C to dissapate that 100W, but the difference could take 30mins or even over an hour depending on how much water is in the loop.

 

[Jokester]

`heres a way i thought of explaining what i mean put a pc in a box regardless of whether the pc is water cooled or air cooled the air in the box will eventually heat up and reach the same temp depending on the size of the box it may take less or more time


i want to get the heat out of that box but keep my room at a nice temp which aircon cant always do..

so hailea or an alternative ? is what im looking for

As joemo13 says, stick the radiator outside the box (room).

You need to do the same thing with a Hailea unit, but a Hailea costs a fortune to buy and run.

 

[craarc]

so if you lock a box full of 50% of water and 50% of air lets forget about volumes here as in rooms etc

say a cube half water and half air the water will always be a lower temp than the air ?

if so great .. but i cant see it

as i see my water temps gradually creeping up the longer i have my AC of and they eventually after a few hours lets say 10 hours the ambient goes up a couple degrees.


i want to keep my room comfortable without pumpin tons of AC controlled air into the room cause it gets a bit chilly, but dissapate the heat from the pc so it doesnt effect the ambient and therefore not kick in my ac as much. if you see what i mean.

so the thought was a chiller with an external vent so no heat is dumped into the room similar to my ac without me feeling cold but am not sure of the best way to do that


added

no i dont want the rad outside the room as in the summer i would be worse off tbh than just having my ac on