Do murderers deserve to die?

Riddell · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:25

I had been thinking about this topic recently and never quite decided whether I for or against the death penalty, although at the moment I'm leaning towards for.

I believe life is a gift and those who make a conscious decision to destroy the lives of other human beings do not deserve life.

I absolutely understand that the death penalty is a horrendous idea to being with and should never be used for revenge. I see it more along the lines of a serial killer/rapist/murderer is not fit to be a part of society.

I'm sure a life in prison will be a very unpleasant experience but there have been plenty stories of people who have been put in the worst environments possible (e.g. concentration camps in WW2) and who have found peace and happiness within themselves in spite of their circumstances...I don't think those that commit monstrous acts deserve that chance.

Feel free to point out holes in my current view.

bhavv · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:27

If executing a murderer would prevent him or her from murdering anyone else again, then to me that is an ethically correct option.

If executing a drink driver would prevent him or her from killing a pedestrian, then that is also an ethically correct option.

I would rather that they life of the guilty be taken, and the life of the innocent spared if at all possible.

Riddell said:
I believe life is a gift and those who make a conscious decision to destroy the lives of other human beings do not deserve life.

I see it more along the lines of a serial killer/rapist/murderer is not fit to be a part of society.

These are also good points.

JDMaverick · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:27

I don't think we need the death penalty back, but I do think prisons need to toughen up.

The threat of jail time no longer seems to be a deterrent any more.

bhavv · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:29

JDMaverick said:
The threat of jail time no longer seems to be a deterrent any more.

When was it ever?

Riddell · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:30

For info, this was the article which swung me to be more for than against the death penalty.

Potentially the worst thing I've ever read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom

dirtychinchilla · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:31

My word, how many times does this argument have to be repeated before people get the message. Would you punish a burglar by burgling him?? Why the hell would you punish a murderer with murder; surely you then are justifying his own crimes with your own. Ridiculous.

Mucky_Pup · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:32

robj20 said:
We should put them into some games like the Running Man and make money from them.

Only if I can be Buzzsaw, I like motorbikes and chainsaws

bhavv · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:32

dirtychinchilla said:
My word, how many times does this argument have to be repeated before people get the message. Would you punish a burglar by burgling him?? Why the hell would you punish a murderer with murder; surely you then are justifying his own crimes with your own. Ridiculous.

To completely stop him from killing anyone else.

dirtychinchilla · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:36

bhavv said:
To completely stop him from killing anyone else.

So you're telling me that prison doesn't prevent them from killing anyone? A murder's life is equally as valuable as yours or mine, who are you to decide who should or should not die? What about people who are falsely accused? Are you going to raise them from the dead?

rz30 · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:37

Deserve by whose morals?

Revenge or Justice that's the question. Don't be fooled by America though they still carry the can for disconnecting against the British. That may give you a clue.

Riddell · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:39

rz30 said:
Deserve by whose morals?

Revenge or Justice that's the question. Don't be fooled by America though they still carry the can for disconnecting against the British. That may give you a clue.

What?

dirtychinchilla · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:40

Also bhavv, how do you decide which crimes are ones that you can receive the death penalty for? If you and I were living a few centuries ago, most likely we would have been executed for being heathens. Doesn't really seem fair does it.

bhavv · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:40

dirtychinchilla said:
So you're telling me that prison doesn't prevent them from killing anyone? A murder's life is equally as valuable as yours or mine, who are you to decide who should or should not die? What about people who are falsely accused? Are you going to raise them from the dead?

The OP assumes that you know their guilt with 100% certainty.

We know that a lot of murderers do not stay in prison their entire lives these days, they get let out after a certain period of time.

Whats to stop them from killing again? They already lack the moral compass required to stop them from doing that in the first place, rehabilitation inst going to magically change them.

The Halk · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:41

dirtychinchilla said:
So you're telling me that prison doesn't prevent them from killing anyone? A murder's life is equally as valuable as yours or mine, who are you to decide who should or should not die? What about people who are falsely accused? Are you going to raise them from the dead?

I don't think a murderer's life is equally valuable, but I think we have to force ourselves to act in that manner in order to be a good society. We have to ensure that when it comes to basic rights we do not impose our judgement on who deserves enhanced or reduced rights. So because of that we have to recognise that no matter what our own opinion is, we shouldn't let it affect basic rights.

We need as much freedom from state oppression as possible, that's why I'm reluctantly in favour of prisoners having the vote too. If you think about a nightmare dystopian totalitarian future (and human society has been totalitarian for 99% of history) then people losing the vote when they go to jail is a weapon the state could use to remain in power.

Naffa · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:42

bhavv said:
So just leave murderers and rapists to go free to carry on murdering and raping?

Of course not, don't be ridiculous. But do not incarcerate somebody in order to punish them, do it to rehabilitate, or to keep them out of circulation due to their danger.

bhavv · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:43

dirtychinchilla said:
Also bhavv, how do you decide which crimes are ones that you can receive the death penalty for? If you and I were living a few centuries ago, most likely we would have been executed for being heathens. Doesn't really seem fair does it.

Read post 10.

And these parents definitely needed the death penalty and nothing less:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-battered-Gravesend-Man-woman-arrested.html

Naffa said:
do it to rehabilitate

Which doesnt work for 74% of criminals.

The Halk · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:44

Naffa said:
Of course not, don't be ridiculous. But do not incarcerate somebody in order to punish them, do it to rehabilitate, or to keep them out of circulation due to their danger.

I agree with one addition, we should set a penalty for breaking the law, "the time" for "the crime", and that's partly where prison should come into it. It should however be a deterrent and not a punishment or form of revenge.

Naffa · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:45

bhavv said:
Which doesnt work for 74% of criminals.

And in conclusion... Kill them?

dirtychinchilla · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:46

bhavv said:
The OP assumes that you know their guilt with 100% certainty.

We know that a lot of murderers do not stay in prison their entire lives these days, they get let out after a certain period of time.

Whats to stop them from killing again? They already lack the moral compass required to stop them from doing that in the first place, rehabilitation inst going to magically change them.

This is a wider issue than what the OP stated though, but fair enough.

Can you provide some statistics of how many murderers actually get released from prison? Any of the murderers who you could name off the top of your head, most likely, are either still in prison, will be in prison for the rest of their lives, or have already died in prison.

Nothing stops them from killing again which is why most murderers, once again, stay in prison for their whole lives. What do you do in cases of manslaughter ie accidental deaths? Do they also deserve to die despite the fact that their crimes were accidental and not premeditated and as a consequence, should they even be in prison?

The Halk said:
I don't think a murderer's life is equally valuable, but I think we have to force ourselves to act in that manner in order to be a good society. We have to ensure that when it comes to basic rights we do not impose our judgement on who deserves enhanced or reduced rights. So because of that we have to recognise that no matter what our own opinion is, we shouldn't let it affect basic rights.

We need as much freedom from state oppression as possible, that's why I'm reluctantly in favour of prisoners having the vote too. If you think about a nightmare dystopian totalitarian future (and human society has been totalitarian for 99% of history) then people losing the vote when they go to jail is a weapon the state could use to remain in power.

I completely agree with you, and prisoners should have the vote and I think it contravenes their human rights! Just because you're in prison, doesn't mean that at some point you will have to go back into the government run world. It effects prisoners too.

bhavv · 1 Apr 2012 at 09:46

Naffa said:
And in conclusion... Kill them?

Murderers and child rapists sure.