England will become a muslim country in the future years?

Castiel said:
You know that much about religion?

I have friends who are religious, I have friends who are not, their personal beliefs are not why I am friends or not with them....if I made arbitrary decisions based purely on whether they held a belief in a God or not then the friendship would be rather shallow tbh......
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I know it's shallow, but I can't deal with it frankly. They would have to go from atheism to theism, and knowing them well I know that wouldn't happen. And my argument would be based on the fact that there is no evidence for the existence of God, and considering they're all well educated, it would be quite confusing. My main issue would be why they did it really. I expect I wouldn't always be so perturbed but with my close friends it would be an issue I think.
 
And anyone who would laugh at the idea of a mass conversion of white people to Islam is showing their own latent racism. It may take 50 years but it's certainly possible. There are plenty of white muslims in the world.
 
The Halk said:
Indeed. If you had to base your friends on people who agreed with you entirely you wouldn't have very many.

I have friends who believe in sky fairies, friends who believe Scottish independence is a good thing, friends who believe Celtic are a good football team, friends who believe Megan Fox doesn't have a penis, friends who believe the moon landing is fake, friends who believe there might be something in alternative medicine, friends who believe socialism is progress...
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I really struggle to be friends with people who are illogical and as such generally just ignore those parts of their personalities. If I have problems tolerating what they're talking about though, it would be hard to be there friends.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
I know it's shallow, but I can't deal with it frankly. They would have to go from atheism to theism, and knowing them well I know that wouldn't happen. And my argument would be based on the fact that there is no evidence for the existence of God, and considering they're all well educated, it would be quite confusing. My main issue would be why they did it really. I expect I wouldn't always be so perturbed but with my close friends it would be an issue I think.
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An argument based purely on the so called 'no evidence' of God would be easily countered, basically you would have to rely on science to prove your claim that God was an invention, yet someone who is religious has their Faith and the evidence they see all around them to support their claim.....I know which is the more difficult to substantiate for the individual....mainly because Science doesn't support an explicit position that supports Atheism....it is entirely agnostic and as such you would be relying on your Faith in your position as much as they were relying on their Faith in theirs.

Also, whatever makes you think that just because someone is well educated they cannot be religious?....given the extensive education of those within the Church in general, you would be hard pushed to support that idea as well.

Why does a persons faith make them so abhorrent to you?
 
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rz30 said:
I don't mean to frighten anybody, but it's blatantly obvious that England will become dominated by Muslims in the coming years. It's not a total shock to me though, it's just part of the puzzle and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Why do you think that is, is it pay back time for what the British empire did around the world?
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I want people to just read this post again.

'blatantly obvious'
'part of the puzzle'

Do you even understand English or do you just type words every now and then and it's sheer coincidence that they're awash with moronic bigotry?
 
I'm not saying that they'd not be religious because they're educated, but they've all come to the conclusion, without my influence, and based on their educations, that God does not exist. My three closest friends are an anthropologist, a micro biologist and a mechanical engineer, each of which are strongly founded on science and evidence, as such making them athiests.

I understand that it's difficult for an athiest to defend their position because religion relies on faith based evidence, but from my point of view everyone starts with the initial position of having no concept of god or any of the supernatural, which is the state you are in when you are born, and as a consequence of that they would have to justify it to me. Do you understand a bit better what I mean in that regard now?

People of faith aren't abhorrent to me, but it's like people believing in something like ghosts or fairies...if you really examine the logic then you must eventually come to the conslusion that god does not exist. I like my friends logical.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
I really struggle to be friends with people who are illogical and as such generally just ignore those parts of their personalities. If I have problems tolerating what they're talking about though, it would be hard to be there friends.
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The logical stance is agnosticism not atheism.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
I'm not saying that they'd not be religious because they're educated, but they've all come to the conclusion, without my influence, and based on their educations, that God does not exist. My three closest friends are an anthropologist, a micro biologist and a mechanical engineer, each of which are strongly founded on science and evidence, as such making them athiests.
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So you are saying that the logical position is that if you have a science education then you cannot logically believe in God?



dirtychinchilla said:
I understand that it's difficult for an athiest to defend their position because religion relies on faith based evidence, but from my point of view everyone starts with the initial position of having no concept of god or any of the supernatural, which is the state you are in when you are born, and as a consequence of that they would have to justify it to me. Do you understand a bit better what I mean in that regard now?
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Can you prove that you have no concept of God at birth? I probably had no concept of the Laws of Physics at birth, does that mean they did not exist until I did......or any concept of love beyond simple need, does that mean Love doesn't exist?....

Do you see the illogical position you put yourself in when you make assumptions based on your personal bias or on using a lack of evidence for something as proof that the evidence doesn't exist and thus the concept doesn't exist?

dirtychinchilla said:
People of faith aren't abhorrent to me, but it's like people believing in something like ghosts or fairies...if you really examine the logic then you must eventually come to the conslusion that god does not exist. I like my friends logical.
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That is a very one dimensional way of assessing what people believe about a range of things.....including Science.

I don't think it is very logical to assume so much from so little.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Because it's a breeding question based upon people's religion...
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The issue is more related to their culture, their religion is secondary..........there are many Muslims who are entirely assimilated into British/Western Culture so logically we must assume that other factors are responsible for their percieved self segregation......

;)
 
Castiel said:
So you are saying that the logical position is that if you have a science education then you cannot logically believe in God?
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No, but I'd hope that people with a decent scientific education would work it out.

Castiel said:
Can you prove that you have no concept of God at birth? I probably had no concept of the Laws of Physics at birth, does that mean they did not exist until I did......or any concept of love beyond simple need, does that mean Love doesn't exist?....
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But the difference is that the laws of physics do exist, it's not about belief, it's about truth. I can't prove that at birth a baby has no concept of the idea of God, but considering that it's a concept that has been generated by homo sapiens in the last 40,000 years, evolutionarily it would not have become inherent knowledge and therefore, as a baby, you would not have that knowledge. It's very different from, say, the knowledge that your mother will feed you, because that was the case long before homo sapiens existed.

Castiel said:
Do you see the illogical position you put yourself in when you make assumptions based on your personal bias or on using a lack of evidence for something as proof that the evidence doesn't exist and thus the concept doesn't exist?
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It's not based on lack of evidence, once again. I am not in the defensive position and therefore do not have to prove what I'm saying.

Castiel said:
That is a very one dimensional way of assessing what people believe about a range of things.....including Science.

I don't think it is very logical to assume so much from so little.
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Perhaps, but if one of my friends told me the earth was 6,000 years old, I'd laugh in their face. They would have failed to examine the evidence, not me.
 
Castiel said:
The issue is more related to their culture, their religion is secondary..........there are many Muslims who are entirely assimilated into British/Western Culture so logically we must assume that other factors are responsible for their percieved self segregation......

;)
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As discussed earlier though, Islam is often a culture and not just a religion, particularly in the case of immigrants. I see what you mean though, they are very difficult to separate.
 
I think it's definitely to be worried off.

The muslim population (that's reported, and I think in places like Bradford etc there are a great deal of illegal immigrants of this religion) is currently just under 3 million. This is a 74% rise since the last census in 2001.

For a country of 62 million, this is quite a rapid rise, and that with the higher birthrate is definitely in my opinion cause for concern.

The main problem isn't just the religion as a whole, it's the dogmatic adherence to it, and the compulsion it places people under. Obviously in a relaxed middle class environment with a small population of muslims it's less of an issue, but as most people know in places like Slough, Bradford, Birmingham, parts of London etc there are whole communities now, and I definitely feel there is a potential for severe radicalisation as well as cultural values from other countries (that Islam supports) being instilled.

There are numerous cases of people being banished already from communities for leaving Islam, marrying the wrong, not subscribing to certain values...

Some facts:

Only 7% of Muslims in Britain think of themselves as British first, with 81% thinking of themselves as Muslim firsthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-9.
(http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/254.pdf)

40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UKhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-10, and 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic statehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-11.

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ls-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html)

(http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf)


Majority of British Muslim have strongly conservative views on moral issues such as extra-marital sexhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-13. They differ dramatically from the views held by the rest of the British population.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-state_of_mind-8

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality) (0% of muslims thought homosexuality was acceptable)


68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam.

(http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06)


25% of British Muslims believe the July 7th bombings were justified because of British support for the U.S.-led war on terror.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#cite_note-16(http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY)
 
rz30 said:
The thing is though that your living off the beliefs of your ancestors that have suffered to deliver (a kind of truth, the way a few of them saw it). If Catholicism or Islam ever dominated this country then it will be bleak we would lose so many freedoms and descend into a hell hole. Even if the endpoint of those freedoms are madness such as many people in this country, we would still fundamentally lose that sense of freedom. We would have the death penalty and suffrage beyond what you can imagine.

The vast majority of people in here are not believers in Jesus Christ, and as most believers would argue, they will not go heaven, yet for some reason counteries like Britain have been given(what it seems), extra special teachings of the Bible and all things holy. Man has been trying to understand why that is for a long time as to why certain countries seem to have been given certin privalages. But the message is still very clear.

You are essentially privileged in that you live in Britain, more so than i think you will ever be able to understand.
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so the UK current govt isn't taking away our rights is it? Body scanners, ID cards issue, plans to screen our emails/website history etc etc.. i think that people who do bad generally have to be afraid of shariah law but then i guess it does ban certain things that are acceptable (or should i say, became acceptable)
 
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