*** League of Legends ***

ElliottJames said:
You really have no clue.
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mcknight said:
Care to make any relevant points? (apart from replays, but I somehow imagine you won't benefit much from that when it arrives)
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iamtheoneneo said:
1. I enjoy that some chars do, Fiora for example is a joy to play with her W
2. so what?
3. because it helps with tactical retreats, getting mobbed 5v1...It has a ridiculous cooldown which means youd only ever use it twice in a game I dont see why people complain about it?
4.but this is part of managing your buying surely, and when do you need potions late game? bc thats the only time slots become an issue
5. its a fair point, but 99% of the time a team knows where they lost a game. It normally after the message ACED appears on screen :D
6. true to a point, but they do all ultimately play very differently despite maybe having some similar skill sets.
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Lawls, guy makes relevant points and you flame him because he doesn't worship your precious game.

Riot can not pull this game out of their behind.
 
BunnyKillBot said:
Lawls, guy makes relevant points and you flame him because he doesn't worship your precious game.

Riot can not pull this game out of their behind.
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No actually Gareth, the majority of the things he said are the normal troll hyperbole used by anyone who wants to moan about the game while everything else was simply not true. Hence my comment asking him to clarify his complaints, because as of right now he's just trolling (given that was his first post in this thread).

Anything else?
 
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BunnyKillBot said:
Lawls, guy makes relevant points and you flame him because he doesn't worship your precious game.

Riot can not pull this game out of their behind.
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what?

I dont even worship the game - why would I care if he doesnt...his points were retarded.
and as for you ... we are well aware that you hate the game as youv expressed 100 times in the past.
 
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new champ is OP to hell and back rofl...

never seen a champ jungle so fast its ridiculous and his natural movement speed + E makes u run like silly fast , his util makes ganking so easy.

i can see him getting nerfed next patch as imo he should feel like a vunerable champ not someone you can go tearing around the field attacking everything in sight
 
Nope, mine's fine. :)

I've seen some people saying Hec needs to build tanky because his damage isn't great but I disagree, spending some more time with him, in 1v1 fights you can generally do well (else you have escapes anyway), in team fights, popping W does enough healing that you don't really need any tanky items. I still struggle in small team fights (like 2v2, 3v3) if I'm focused because I don't get enough healing but that's fine, there has to be a downside somewhere.

Still working out what items I like on him, BT, PD and Tri work well though, I'm still going for MR boots for tenacity but I've seen people argue that the swiftness ones are better with his passive. I can't imagine that the small AD/Speed boost is worth sacrificing tenacity though.
 
mcknight said:
No actually Gareth, the majority of the things he said are the normal troll hyperbole used by anyone who wants to moan about the game while everything else was simply not true. Hence my comment asking him to clarify his complaints, because as of right now he's just trolling (given that was his first post in this thread).
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Hardly.

I'll start with the fact that I've posted in this thread before. Do not lie to try and discredit me.

I've played since beta and have... probably 900? games played, so it's not a snap decision or trolling or anything you're imagining it to be. Lower your shield keyboard warrior.

iamtheoneneo said:
Reply to points
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I can't account for your like of dashes, but in isolation they are not necessarily a problem. In combination with flash, they are.
Covering half a screen in under a second with a combination with dash and flash is nonsense. Any kind of 'get out of fail free' cards like that are boring, see also: Untargetable abilities.
Tactical retreats? Getting ganked 5v1 is not a 'tactical error'. It's you not putting down enough wards or CVing the area. It makes people lazy and not learn to play well, rather than using the tools given to them.

I'll make an issue of point 2. If you knew anything about the situation surrounding untargetable abilities, you would know that Riot specifically removed many of them shortly after the release of Vlad (during his overpowered phase), essentially agreeing that they are a bad idea and should not be in the game. Remember when projectiles would be cancelled when flashing / moving out of tower range? Rewarding bad play again.
After this cull of untargetable abilities, they then decided they're a good idea, gave one to Fizz and now Fiora's ultimate? What?

Point 4, some heroes (like Yi) would benefit from having mana pots late game, freeing up an additional slot for a proper item. There is really no down side to having an additional slot, only a painful choice / forcing a player to sacrifice a slot to provide that utility to their team (Never going to happen in pub games).

Point 5, a competitive game without native replay functionality? In 2012?
I'd like one of you to explain how that is acceptable or desirable, please.

Point 6, I'll take Fiora for this example. Like Master Yi, but better. Why use Yi at all when you can have an untargetable ultimate? Is there a situation where Fiora is not superior to Yi? See also: Brand + Annie.

It's hardly trolling when all the points are valid, is it?
 
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I've seen some people saying Hec needs to build tanky because his damage isn't great but I disagree,
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yea all the people i saw playing him didnt go tanky , hes not a tanky champ hes more of an assasin style char and the biggest thing he has going for him is his speed you can easily charge into a fight and escape if you start to get focused and then come back in again.

maybe is it randuins armour that you activate for the aoe slow? or frozen mallet just so you can slow people down your team are chasing but other than that i wouldnt try to tank him like a tank ww build or shyvana/olaf

from what i played of him hes a poor solo laner and he really needs to be jungling or getting early game kills on the bottom lane.

vs someone like olaf , mundo , shyvana 1v1 at top lane he has no chance imo
 
Well then good sir, I must apologize to you. I hadn't seen you around until now, wasn't anything malicious intended at all. As you'll note that reply was specifically tailored to Bunny and not to yourself.

Thanks for clarifying your points, it was what I'd asked for in the first place. The lack of replays is unfortunate, definitely and one of the things I have a serious problem with as it is seriously hindering the esports and commentary scene behind the game itself. Actual replays are available for all the other uses however through a 3rd party utility, they just aren't good enough to cast. The PTR has a system almost fully finished, although I can't imagine they'll release until Dota2 has announced their release date. Nice to have a big reveal in the back pocket, so to speak, for PR.

Let's see, your point about dashes is taken. Yes there are some champions with gap closers, well done. It's both not nearly as bad as you describe nor as widespread. I encourage you to go and play DotA if you are worried about getting initiated across the screen, Blink Dagger would love to educate you as to much larger possibilities then that.

As for Flash, I could definitely see an argument against whether it should have been in the game to begin with. I've been on both sides of it through my history with the game. Surely you aren't arguing towards removing it now though? *That* argument is kind of laughable.

Untargetable abilities higher the skill-cap of the game significantly, I'm behind anything that will do that in this game given Riot's sincerest efforts to go the other direction. Although I'm a much bigger fan of Fizz's then Vlads for example, as it's significantly harder to use correctly. As for Fiora, I really wouldn't count that in, given it's an actual Ultimate, damaging ability and is not used for the purposes of being untargetable. It's a direct copy of an Ultimate in Dota infact.

Your point about "a ward/potion" slot is retarded, there's a reason you have a limited amount of item slots in these games. It's to do with the balance between gold and slot efficiency with regards to items and a host of different things depend upon having that strict restriction. Mana pots are also almost entirely useless early game, nevermind late game. Not that that has any correlation on what else I'm saying here, it just pains me to see someone thinking that.

Fiora is somewhat simliar to Master Yi. They perform very different roles however and she certainly isn't a better character. I'd argue she's worse. But that's a different arguement altogether, all you need to know is that their only similarities are that they both melee auto-attack and that one of their skills look roughly the same. Brand and Annie are both burst casters yes, so are Xerath, Gragus and Sion. What exactly is your point there? Brand and Annie play nothing alike, if that's it anyway.
 
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My view on dash attacks changes from game to game. Normally they don't bother me but trying to play Ashe when the entire enemy team have some form of dash is so annoying it makes me want to throw my PC out of the window.
 
Try playing as Jungle Tryndamere against 5 flashers and 3 escapers.

No ganks, simple as that... Unless you tone down your jungle and press ganks hard, which will just cost you lvls unless it pays off (staying there soo long they pop flash and their escape, then you close in :))

Actually at the moment just try playing ;)
 
Strange - I always viewed the stuns as worse than the dashes. 5 stuns on a team (AOE even better) really make it a hard game for a non stun team to win.
 
arknor said:
yea all the people i saw playing him didnt go tanky , hes not a tanky champ hes more of an assasin style char and the biggest thing he has going for him is his speed you can easily charge into a fight and escape if you start to get focused and then come back in again.

maybe is it randuins armour that you activate for the aoe slow? or frozen mallet just so you can slow people down your team are chasing but other than that i wouldnt try to tank him like a tank ww build or shyvana/olaf

from what i played of him hes a poor solo laner and he really needs to be jungling or getting early game kills on the bottom lane.

vs someone like olaf , mundo , shyvana 1v1 at top lane he has no chance imo
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I don't know about him top lane, I'm playing jungle on him.

He does have qualities that'd be good top though, very good escapes, you can abuse the hell out of minions, he has decent burst after a bit of feed.

I think the reason people say to use him as a tank is he is very tanky in a team fight while W is active. With all that damage going off, he takes a lot of healing. As I said before though, I'd rather take that as an excuse to build full damage and deal heavy damage. Especially with his control, he's a great champ in team fights with big damage.

Definitely a brilliant jungler though. Between the knockback, fear, awesome movement speed, he has amazing ganks.
 
mcknight said:
As for Flash, I could definitely see an argument against whether it should have been in the game to begin with. I've been on both sides of it through my history with the game. Surely you aren't arguing towards removing it now though? *That* argument is kind of laughable.
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Well, Riot have been looking at it.
Honestly the effect on the meta would be minimal, as there are very few tactics which rely on Flash (Maybe Fiddle and Kata would need balancing again?). As I said before, it's a 'get out of fail free' card, no matter how undeserving the player is.

I'll disagree that untargetable attacks raise the skill cap, because there is no skill involved in using them. It's not fun being unable to attack the enemy (I'm not a great fan of Karthus' passive, but being dead + unable to move render it less annoying). There was a reason they removed the projectile-cancelling effect of flash (it seems to have reappeared, but that may just be individual circumstances), and this is the same issue.

mcknight said:
As for Fiora, I really wouldn't count that in, given it's an actual Ultimate, damaging ability and is not used for the purposes of being untargetable. It's a direct copy of an Ultimate in Dota infact.
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By that logic, all melee DPS should have untargetable ultis?
I don't have an issue with being able to hit 5 people with the ulti, but the lack of skill to use the ulti effectively does bother me. Couple that with not being able to stop it under any circumstances, makes it not fun.
DOTA was not balanced. The meta was 4 stunners 1 DPS for a long time. League of Legends is better than that.

The potion / ward slot has been requested by some of the community since day one, so I would hardly call it 'retarded' (unless that was directed at me?). You seem to be under the impression that the balance of the game, and by proxy the metagame, is static and unyielding. It's not. Tactics would immediately adapt to take advantage of the slot, and potion / ward usage would increase in late game. You're taking the slot efficiency and turning it into another gold efficiency variable, there is no net loss, only a change. It pains me to think anyone would be so bombastically foolish to not understand that.
Perhaps as a constraint, potions and wards could no longer occupy another slot, forcing the bottom lane to split potion and ward purchasing equally between the two players? Again, not mind-blowingly improbably.

Xerath's initial limitations have mostly disappeared (deployment time etc.), making him an extremely powerful caster. You would be hard pushed to find anyone who finds Annie preferable over Brand, although both are extremely powerful burst casters. Gragas has excellent crowd control and harass, beyond the level of Annie and Brand, coupled with his terrain dash, I personally think he is under valued. AP Sion is one of the best hybrid tanks, which isn't really what we're discussing.

My points still stand, and they are why I don't play any more.

tals said:
Strange - I always viewed the stuns as worse than the dashes. 5 stuns on a team (AOE even better) really make it a hard game for a non stun team to win.
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They are. That's why there are no stun items in the game. See: Dota Voidwalker / Berzerker + 2 Bashers.
 
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