Do Microsoft want Windows Phone to fail?

[Abooie]

What a lot of hot air over nothing. I'm pretty sure The Verge et al have just worked out an easy way to raise their hits.

1, we don't fully know what Apollo will bring.
2, we don't know whether existing handsets will get it.
3, even if they don't we don't know whether MS will carry on updating Mango to bring feature parity.

I'm happy with my 800 as it is. Sure more apps and features are nice I bought it as is and knew what I was getting. I'll worry about what I will won't get when the time is right.

Also, with all the positive press Nokia and MS have been getting lately the timing of all this, and the anonymity all seems a little convenient?

 

[Robbo]

Do you believe Microsoft employee or do you believe someone said they had a source close to Microsoft who told them about upgrade process if Microsoft didn't not release official statement then i consider the verge article a crappy troll article nothing more

I'd expect you to say that, Mr Windows Phone.

 

[Xinn]

Nokia reporting Q1 losses of $1.7 billion. Sales down $4 billion as well.

 

[cu3ed]

Which would have been happening no matter what OS they had running.

 

[DIABLO]

Which would have been happening no matter what OS they had running.

Hmmm i think a such phones as Lumnia 800, 900, 710 would sell a hell of a lot better at least in this country if it had been running Android. They are losing a lot of there core business (cheap phones in developing/poorer countrys) to cheap android smartphones but i'd imagine if they produced a few cheap Android handsets for these markets they could reverse the trend but they won't do that as they are in bed with Microsoft.

 

[Fallen god]

Wow, all this prediction over Nokia and WP and they have only got their first generation models out for not even a year.

MS had a smartphone OS before apple and google so they had a lot of chance, and nokia was top of the hill for the longest amount off time. Its mostly there fault there not so succesfully. MS took the longest amount of time to release something good. There first update to 6.5 wasnt anywhere near good ebough, but they have learnt and WP7 was so much better, and 7.5 added a lot of features to bring it up to

Which would have been happening no matter what OS they had running.

But the big reason for such a strick and closed system was to grantee updates on time its the same reason everyone single WP has the same screen res, SoC (different clock speeds I believe), ram and so on and so on. They made a very big deal about it and so far the upgrade to 7.5 was great, but if those phones dont get WP8 it will hurt a lot of customers and not do any good for MS.

 

[lewism]

Hmmm i think a such phones as Lumnia 800, 900, 710 would sell a hell of a lot better at least in this country if it had been running Android. They are losing a lot of there core business (cheap phones in developing/poorer countrys) to cheap android smartphones but i'd imagine if they produced a few cheap Android handsets for these markets they could reverse the trend but they won't do that as they are in bed with Microsoft.

Having used cheap Androids I can certainly say that I find the Windows experience on "cheaper" handsets much more enjoyable and fluid than Android.

 

[grudas]

Having used cheap Androids I can certainly say that I find the Windows experience on "cheaper" handsets much more enjoyable and fluid than Android.

the thing with android tho is that people like it and like it a lot w7 is still a new thing and if they have used android phones before moving to w7 might feel a bit risky/limited compared to android.. in my eyes nokia should have kept symbian and done what samsung did.. they have both android and w7 headsets out and they leading the market

 

[Glaucus]

I think there selling the 900s for on contract in America for a limited time which is amazing compared to most higher end phones which you pay $300 ontop of a contract, moveover the fact that its now the cheapest/one of the cheapest LTE phones you can get. I think this is one of the reasons its doing really well.

Hardly surrising, the wp7s are cheap phones due to w7p restrictions on CPU and screen resolution, this IMO is also why we haven't seen a massive amount of hand sets.
When w8 comes it allowes multiple core and different screen res, I would expect to see many more handsets on the Market as well as expensive ones. ATM im not at all surprised they can sell the kumiss cheap and still make decent profit.

 

[Glaucus]

the thing with android tho is that people like it and like it a lot w7 is still a new thing and if they have used android phones before moving to w7 might feel a bit risky/limited compared to android.. in my eyes nokia should have kept symbian and done what samsung did.. they have both android and w7 headsets out and they leading the market

Geeks like it a lot. Most customers don't care as long as it works. Far more persuaded by sales people than the platform.

I would write MS, I am sure they will be a massive player, just give it a few years. Just like android need a few to get traction. MS is late to the game but W8 will be great and will work on cheap to high end phones, unlike iOS and far better than androids fragmentation.

 

[Fillado]

MS is late to the game but W8 will be great and will work on cheap to high end phones, unlike iOS and far better than androids fragmentation.

At least from what I understand that isn't true. Cheap WP phones (Tango devices) can't run background agents among other limitations. This places it at a major disadvantage to cheap Android devices which can do that. It's also creating fragmentation as certain apps (games will be a big problem) won't run on these devices at all due to their lower specifications.

 

[torchxit]

I'd expect you to say that, Mr Windows Phone.

since you like the rumor from the verge here is another Nokia Evangelist & Developer says he has a trusted source inside saying lumia 710, 610 and 900 getting windows phone 8 and he trust his source 200%

https://twitter.com/#!/joaoluisc


whom should we believe

 

[Glaucus]

At least from what I understand that isn't true. Cheap WP phones (Tango devices) can't run background agents among other limitations. This places it at a major disadvantage to cheap Android devices which can do that. It's also creating fragmentation as certain apps (games will be a big problem) won't run on these devices at all due to their lower specifications.

Tango is wp7 not wp8
And I don't think you're correct either. Leaked Rom shows multitasking limit increase over mango.
It also handles memory better, Memory hog apps will automatically be switched off, while low resource apps will keep fast switching.
Hd playback won't be doable on all codecs, no bing search. There's no big issue with tango or fragmentation. The biggest problem is lack of ram, which as above is well managed.

The company's promising that nearly all apps will work on the cheaper hardware, promising that fragmentation will be kept to a minimum. Any app that runs poorly on the slimmer hardware will be flagged as unsuitable in the Marketplace. Speaking of which, Microsoft has announced it'll be rolling it out to a further 23 countries shortly including China, the UAE and much of Eastern Europe -- increasing the total market reach by up to 60 percent.

Seems good to me, no different to the + on apple market. Little fragmentation and opens the mArket up around the world for nokia to replace symbian.

 

[Amp34]

Not relevent. That's revenue NOT profit. That entire article has nothing to do with profit. Plus it is comparing current (post Nokia-tanking) figures. I wonder how good it would look comparing WP now to Nokia at the end of 2010. I mean "nothing" as the phone is effectively free with a contract until Monday. And for Americans that is what they would view as a free phone. It was (I'm guessing) already aggressively (meaning low profit margins) priced at $99.

Sure their market share was declining (not haemorrhaging - now it's haemorrhaging) but tell me which is better:

Declining market share with increased sales, revenue and profits.

Haemorrhaging market share with decreased sales, decreased revenue and a LOSS.

Sorry, yes, that is indeed revenue. The point was that they get a much larger revenue on their WP than their symbian phones, both of which run on similar hardware. Not sure about actual costs however, but I know the 800 is estimated to cost around $220 to manufacture, the 900 will be the same and the 710 significantly less. That is a lot less than the Nexus which is estimated at around $270.

Symbian wasn't doing rubbish. Again it had a PR problem, was being developed at a snails-pace and wasn't (at least in its current form) able to take Nokia into the future. But it certainly was able to give Nokia YEARS to sort itself out. Elop MADE Symbian (and so Nokia) sales tank when he released his "burning platform" memo.

Try not to misunderstand what I'm saying. I agree that at the time of the "burning platform" memo Nokia needed a massive kick up the butt! I'm not even saying which direction was the best. But by publicly saying Symbian was dead it instantaneously caused an utter implosion of their mobile phone business. And Lumia (at the moment) isn't able to put a stop to it.

I also agree that now Symbian is the past. So why are we getting a new phone this year with Symbian on it?

WM wasn't rubbish either, but that went out the window with new OSs and phones.

I agree though, Elop should not have said that Symbian was dead, that has hit them hard for little real reason, however it may help their future share price as investors know where they stand. They are still producing symbian phones and releasing new ones (not just the 808). The big question is how many of the general public stopped buying symbian phones because of that announcement and how many "swapped" to Android/similar cheap smartphones? I'm thinking the latter is the more reasonable.

I do understand. But again I was merely saying that the profit Nokia were getting from each Lumia 900 sale at $99 (with contract) would be "okay". At free it must be near nothing. Which is why it's such an amazing price compared to other phones.



He is quite... enthusiastic I don't agree that Symbian/Meego can (now) save Nokia. But I do agree (at least with all his reasoning) that Nokia is tanking. That's Nokia as a whole.

As I mentioned earlier, Lumias cost a lot less to manufacture than the high end Android phones and have similar performance day to day.

MS had a smartphone OS before apple and google so they had a lot of chance, and nokia was top of the hill for the longest amount off time. Its mostly there fault there not so succesfully. MS took the longest amount of time to release something good. There first update to 6.5 wasnt anywhere near good ebough, but they have learnt and WP7 was so much better, and 7.5 added a lot of features to bring it up to



But the big reason for such a strick and closed system was to grantee updates on time its the same reason everyone single WP has the same screen res, SoC (different clock speeds I believe), ram and so on and so on. They made a very big deal about it and so far the upgrade to 7.5 was great, but if those phones dont get WP8 it will hurt a lot of customers and not do any good for MS.

WM 6.5 was a stopgap as WP7 was delayed AFAIK. They were certainly working on WP7 when WM 6.5 was being developed.

Hmmm i think a such phones as Lumnia 800, 900, 710 would sell a hell of a lot better at least in this country if it had been running Android. They are losing a lot of there core business (cheap phones in developing/poorer countrys) to cheap android smartphones but i'd imagine if they produced a few cheap Android handsets for these markets they could reverse the trend but they won't do that as they are in bed with Microsoft.

What you and quite a few people on this forum don't seem to understand is that most regular consumers don't care about the OS. People want a nice simple smartphone that browses the internet, has some games and has facebook/twitter. The 610 and 710 are cheap, similar in price to the Android MC etc., the big issue in the developing countries is that they haven't been released... Nokia are still running on Symbian there. They are however starting to be released now. The thing you have to remember with the results so far is that up until March there were basically no Nokia WP's released outside Europe. The US had the 710 for a short while and has just had the 900 released, other than that only half of europe has been able to buy them officially. You can't buy something that hasn't been released in your region yet!

 

[Amp34]

since you like the rumor from the verge here is another Nokia Evangelist & Developer says he has a trusted source inside saying lumia 710, 610 and 900 getting windows phone 8 and he trust his source 200%

https://twitter.com/#!/joaoluisc


whom should we believe

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/19/microsoft-official-admits-he-misspoke-regarding-windows-phone-8/

This is why companies have to be careful in their external communication: if a spokesperson reveals relevant details about an anticipated product, the news is going to be reported. Such a situation happened just two days ago, when Microsoft employee Nuno Silva went on the record -- on video, nonetheless -- to say that all current Windows Phone handsets would receive the upgrade to Apollo. Not so fast. Silva has since retracted his statement and now insists that his remarks only extend to apps. Yep. What he meant to say was that existing Windows Phone applications should work with the new operating system. Beyond that clarification, however, the company has no new information to share regarding the upgrade potential of current Windows Phone handsets. Makes you wonder if anyone in the company knows for sure.

Hmmm... Doesn't look promising. MS can't really do that can they? Big mistake if they do!

 

[DIABLO]

What you and quite a few people on this forum don't seem to understand is that most regular consumers don't care about the OS. People want a nice simple smartphone that browses the internet, has some games and has facebook/twitter. The 610 and 710 are cheap, similar in price to the Android MC etc., the big issue in the developing countries is that they haven't been released... Nokia are still running on Symbian there. They are however starting to be released now. The thing you have to remember with the results so far is that up until March there were basically no Nokia WP's released outside Europe. The US had the 710 for a short while and has just had the 900 released, other than that only half of europe has been able to buy them officially. You can't buy something that hasn't been released in your region yet!

If people don't care about the OS so much then why are W7 phones not selling well in europe in general.

 

[Glaucus]

If people don't care about the OS so much then why are W7 phones not selling well in europe in general.

Not selling well? It's new, there's only a couple of models and the biggest problem is the sale staff push android.

 

[bam0]

Not selling well? It's new, there's only a couple of models and the biggest problem is the sale staff push android.

Not Nokia WP7 phones, WP7 phones in general. There're more than a couple of models and it's not new. People just aren't buying into it and your prediction for W8 seem just a little fanboyish.
As for the sales staff pushing Android, why would they do that? It's not like Google are throwing huge amounts of money at it, it's mostly down to the networks and manufacturers to advertise.

 

[DIABLO]

It's been out for over 18 months released on 23~ devices worldwide and has less then 2%~ marketshare, if most people don't care about the OS as Amp34 suggests i'd exspect this to be better.

 

[Fillado]

Tango is wp7 not wp8
And I don't think you're correct either. Leaked Rom shows multitasking limit increase over mango.
It also handles memory better, Memory hog apps will automatically be switched off, while low resource apps will keep fast switching.
Hd playback won't be doable on all codecs, no bing search. There's no big issue with tango or fragmentation. The biggest problem is lack of ram, which as above is well managed.



Seems good to me, no different to the + on apple market. Little fragmentation and opens the mArket up around the world for nokia to replace symbian.

Ah yes. I was just presuming that WP8 would have the same limitations at Tango on lower-spec hardware. Tango has the improvements as you stated on EXISTING hardware. On Tango specific hardware (Nokia 610) background tasks won't run. That's separate to fast-app switching. Settings > Scroll Right (applications) > Background Tasks (and check out everything in advanced as well). For example a weather app won't update until you open it.

Hmm. For apps maybe but I would imagine game makers would have to at least re-think their exisiting games. But as you said on the App Store there is minor fragmentation in that games will look better on newer hardware.