david cameron ''children should stand up''

Apparently all the riots last year were about the "yoofs" "not getti'n respec' " :rolleyes:

How does one have respect for people that - a) have no respect for others and b) have no respect for themselves....

Truth is they confuse someone fearing them as getting respect from them....
 
Tyron said:
No, you said:



Either source it or it's an bassless opinion fronted as fact.
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oh dear..... either your internet troll skills are working overtime are you are just demanding sources for something you already know you are wrong on.

military ideology is something you learn whilst you are a serving member of the forces its not necessarily something you read in an encyclopaedia. Have a conversation with anyone who is/has been in the military and you will immediately understand the meaning of the statement salute the rank not the man
 
Castiel said:
Is a ret. Captain with 18 years service in the Royal Marines count as a reliable source as to whether wildman is taliking out of his arse or not?
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Read what he typed 5 times before replying to me, it would help with your posting as I was addressing wildman stating pupils in school should treat it like the military ranks.
 
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BunnyKillBot said:
BULL and more of it. Sensationalism worthy of the Daily Mail.
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the unfortunate truth is that its not actual bull. All you need to do is conduct a 4 to 5 hour people watching session in a town centre of any fairly new town like Stevenage / Harlow / MK and you can see immediately the complete lack of any respect or discipline in a fairly considerable chunk of the youth population.

To think this doesn;t exist is a case of wool + over eyes or rose tinted glasses
 
Tyron said:
Source, or are you talking out your ass?
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In effect its true, you saluting to acknowledge the Queen's commission, it is also a gesture of respect for the officer, which will more often than not be returned politely and courteously.
to not salute if you like or respect the officer or not is a rather big **** you, its disrepectful and down right rude, and will probably land you with a firm *******ing at the very least.
 
Tyron said:
Ooops, well you knew who I was addressing :p
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My point still stands that there is no way a hierarchical system can function, such as school/military/or society in general, without certain levels of set respect and courtesy towards superiors ( I use this term lightly so as to avoid confusion I would say people in positions of authority over your station of expertise, standing or other merits.)

Anarchy. Which is what we are heading towards.
 
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LordSplodge said:
Wrong. Children* should respect their elders by default. Schools need more discipline.



* Actually if everybody gave more respect the world would be a better place.
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The former contradicts the latter... :p

For the latter the suggestion should be the elder should respect the child as much as the child should respect the elder.

Just because a child is not necessarily more intelligent or worldly doesn't mean they should not be given respect. You can respect a child and still give them guidance, teach them right or wrong etc., but you may have trouble if you don't respect a child and make assumptions that they should respect you.

In the old days you could hit them and force them to respect your cane, shoe, belt or hand, nowadays you actually need to get them to respect you, a big change for some of the older members of society.;)
 
Amp34 said:
I think the respect issue is one of the major factors that defines a good or bad teacher. Those teachers I had at school that were "bad" teachers were those that assumed respect, treated you poorly and assumed they should have been respected. The best teachers were IMO those that worked for their respect, didn't make assumptions and earned it. Those that didn't assume respect were given it in spades by even the most disruptive students, those that treated students like rubbish were in turn treated like rubbish.

Obviously that wasn't a hard and fast rule but was the general trend.
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The problem many people are having in this thread is that they are applying a very narrow definition to what respect means.

It is not only about giving respect to an individual because of their actions or personal qualities, it is also about the common courtesy due to someone both ethically and because of their position and authority.

The standing when your teacher enters the room (and I mean simply waiting at the beginning of a lesson until given leave to sit, rather than standing each time someone enters the room...and certainly not at home or in informal situations) refers to the latter.....

It is merely a mechanism that teaches a certain standard of discipline and courtesy, it doesn't even have to be standing, it could be waiting quietly and sensibly in the hall before each lesson or some other illustration.

Amp34 said:
BTW why the "you"? I have been out of school for about 8 years now. :p
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'you' as in the plural, not the singular. :)
 
To reiterate I was addressing this;

wildman said:
as a pupil at a school that's not your call to make, you are there to learn / attned classes. Its like being in the military, you salute the rank not the man, same thing applies here.....
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The school system afaik isn't the military and shouldn't be treated as such and the two shouldn't be seen the same.

Again, why should a student be forced to stand? None of them think to themselves when standing "I really admire this teacher and respect him!" they stand up without thought just obeying orders. Come to think of it I guess it is similar to the military, do as your told, don't think, DO!
 
Housey said:
As I said, read what I said not what you THINK I said. I never said standing was a good thing, I said your stupid comment taking standing and turning into what you are now turning it into was stupid. I said courtesy for elders was good practice, you have gone off on your down trodden human rights/big cheese walking over the proletariat diatribe.
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The WHOLE THREAD started with kids being forced to stand when a teacher or parent enters the room. I am saying that is not curtsey for elders, that is forced respect on fear of punishment. When you say "courtesy for elders was good practice", in a thread about forcing kids to stand when a teacher enters the room people will assume that's what you are referring too. Or can I join in a conversation about football discipline and say "well I think they should bring back corporal punishment" and get angry, and insult those that think I am talking about replacing yellow cards?

Housey said:
See my point above, you are making 2 and 2 equal 83, like equating the inventor of electricity with porn depraving our children because well, without electric there would be no internet so there. I never stood up at school when teachers walked in, only when my headmaster came into assembly. Again you're on your down trodden employee rights and again, I say the man, he protest too much...
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How on earth are the two related? Seriously? We are talking about the psychological effects of how a child is raised and you go off on some weird tangent about the psychological effects of technology? Try and make some sense lad!

It really is very simple. Does how you raise and treat a child affect them as adults?

If yes, by all means teach them respect. Teach them a basic level of respect that all human beings deserve, regardless of stature, a bad teacher should not be respected as a teacher. Someone that doesn't earn their extra respect, doesn't deserve it.
Teach them to show more respect to people that have earned it. Do not force them to pretend to respect their "betters" purely for fear of being disciplined. For when they go to work, they will carry that on and inept managers will cost people money, or jobs.

In no (after all forcing them to give fake respect to a teacher will magically stop when they turn a certain age) there is no point teaching it to them in the first place, as it wont do them any good in the real world will it?
 
Tyron said:
Ooops, well you knew who I was addressing :p
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Why do you salute?
The custom of saluting commissioned officers relates wholly to the commission given by Her Majesty the Queen to that officer, not the person. Therefore, when a subordinate airman salutes an officer, he is indirectly acknowledging Her Majesty as Head of State. A salute returned by the officer is on behalf of the Queen.

As with many things in military history, the origin of the custom of saluting is a little obscure. In a book called 'Military Customs', Major TJ Edwards suggests that 'saluting and the paying of compliments may be said to proceed from the exercise of good manners'. Indeed, if you take the word saluting literally, it is merely the offering of a salutation or greeting, which in the military must be reciprocated.
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source: http://www.raf.mod.uk/links/faqs.cfm

its standard practice, you salute the comission / rank not the man
 
Efour2 said:
I think this thread is highlighting why kids have no respect these days.

We did it at school in the 90s

I cant believe they wouldn't do it now days....

I always respected my teachers... more than my parents in some cases. Never back chat a teacher. then i wanted to learn, i wasn't a scrote.
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Actually I think this thread is highlighting the older/younger generation divide...

The older generation are complaining that kids should respect them by default, the younger generation arguing that respect should be earned* by everyone, young and old and be equal.

*above "the standard"
 
Showing respect to your teacher doesn`t mean you respect him/her as a person but as a teacher - that is you respect their knowledge, authority and the trust placed in them by the state and your parents to take care of you and share their knowledge with you as best they can thus helping you grow as a person and hopefully become a useful and respectful member of society and not a **** chav

This means you have to show respect even if you don`t like them.

Only a few of our teachers were truly respected by us students but we always showed respect to all of them even the ones with very obvious shortcomings (like being boring, being a bad teacher etc.) The ones that were respected were always 100% true to themselves, honest, treated everyone fairly and equally. Some of them weren`t even good teachers lol. I think kids can always sense whether a teacher is honest/genuine

The only exception to this rule I`d say is when they lost their integrity as a teacher for whatever reason
 
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