You'd have to arrest nearly every person in the country if that were the case.
If someone molests a child when drunk, is the child guilty of rape?
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Confused at the sentence handed for this "Rape"
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You'd have to arrest nearly every person in the country if that were the case.
If someone molests a child when drunk, is the child guilty of rape?
They can, and do, give verdicts based on their own feelings rather than on evidence despite how strongly the legal system tells them not to. Rape cases are particularly prone to that because there often isn't clear evidence. The guilty can be acquitted and the innocent can be convicted, both quite easily.
In this case, it appears that the same evidence resulted in 1 acquittal and 1 conviction, which is dodgy ground. With the little evidence we've been given, I think the most likely explanation is that the jury gave verdicts based on their own feeling that a woman might consent to sex with a stranger but not to sex with two strangers in quick succession. That's not evidence - it's supposition.
But we haven't been given much evidence. Maybe there's something important that hasn't been reported. Or maybe not.
We're certainly conditioned to act as if it is. Personally I don't agree. I think forcing someone to do something under threat of violence, or under actual violence is the worst thing someone can do. That's of course present in many rapes....but waking up the next day and claiming you were so drunk you couldn't articulate "no" does not mean you've suffered in anything like the way someone who was beaten and robbed has suffered.
Soldato
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I wonder if the mobile phone footage of Evans actually committing the act was presented as evidence and is what swayed it together with the fact that he joined in later as a multiple, hence the jury could act on the evidence presented before them. Presumably there's no footage of McDonald doing the deed.
Soldato
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On the otherhand she may have been spiked and filmed being used as a sextoy in a gangbang for the lulz. At 19 that can be pretty emotionally traumatic,
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That's the difficulty, but some of the attitudes here are a little worrying. Implication seems to be that if there's no proof, it's not rape and she is lying for dubious reasons. Not many guys seem to be willing to accept the possibility of such a situation at face value and empathize at all with the supposed victim (rather empathazing with the perpetrator because he is actually being punished, shock horror!).
Society conditioned to believe that rape is a worst crime than it actually is when compared to the suffering of those being beaten/robbed is ridiculous. Rape victims suffer horribly for many many years, whereas if your stuff gets stolen you could *potentially get over that a bit quicker. I suppose the physical nature of the act is what you were getting at rather than the emotional side though.
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What I was getting at is I don't see a difference between being violated under actual or the threat of violence. And I certainly don't think morning after regret should be in any way compared to it. People are being told how to behave by society.
because while rape is a terrible act, for a man simply being accused of rape having your face plastered all over the media as a rapist before you even see a court room is basically life over.
After all we've had numerous innocent people severely beaten, their property destroyed and many committing suicide before it later coming out as a fabrication.
How do you think rocking up to work the next day would be not after being found "innocent" but simply as it's reported every time "not enough evidence to convict" .
quick drugs test would sort that out though?
Unless it was drugs specifically used to spike surely there'd be no way to tell if she'd taken it by herself or not?
not that many people take GHB or rohypnol recreationally and the ones that do certainly don't drink at the same time.
But given she meet them after having stopped drinking it's unlikely they spiked her having never met her before don't you think?
My guess would be that she wasn't spiked. However my point is she could still claim she was spiked even if roofies weren't in her bloodstream and it was coke instead.
The way the law is, sex with a drunk woman is far too risky (wife/girlfriend a lot less risky) so best not to do it.
The problem lies in if a woman is too drunk to be aware and consent why is the man, who could be as equally drunk, not be afforded the same legal standing? Its a minefield that's for sure.
In the late 80s I was on holiday in Greece and woke up one morning in bed with 2 girls that I didn't know. I didn't remember a thing and neither did they and to this day I've no idea what happened that night. For me that's what really scares me about the law as it is.
Until found guilty the same anonymity considerations should be given to the alleged rapist as to the alleged rapee.
The problem lies in if a woman is too drunk to be aware and consent why is the man, who could be as equally drunk, not be afforded the same legal standing? Its a minefield that's for sure.
In the late 80s I was on holiday in Greece and woke up one morning in bed with 2 girls that I didn't know. I didn't remember a thing and neither did they and to this day I've no idea what happened that night. For me that's what really scares me about the law as it is.
Until found guilty the same anonymity considerations should be given to the alleged rapist as to the alleged rapee.
Then she wouldn't have been stumbling about the place, she'd appear a lot more sober.
Also i don't think you can usefully spike a drink with coke, unless she says they mad her her unwittingly go to the bogs and snort a few lines.....
Mix enough booze and coke and you'll get those results.
Edit : Heh. Yeah, does this smell of erm, sugar to you? Snort it right up....?
You can eat coke, no idea how effective it is.
you can rub it into your gums but not swallow it, so unless she swirled it round her mouth a lot
and it would be easier to get her drunk, than coke her up then try and get her drunk through the huge stimulant effect.
Don't think there was one uni night where some bint didn't get drunk and start stumbling round going "omg i've been spiked"... yeah nothing to do with the vodka shots you've been hammering.
But as was said they didn't meet her in the bar
you can rub it into your gums but not swallow it, so unless she swirled it round her mouth a lot
[..]
This tangent piqued my curiosity enough to look into it a bit. Apparently you can eat cocaine and it does have an effect, but it's strongly affected by other things you've eaten or drunk and it can have unpleasant side effects because it constricts blood vessels and that's not fun in your guts. One substance which is easy to obtain and apparently works well at reducing how much of the cocaine is broken down in the stomach is alcohol. It does seem possible to spike a drink with cocaine, especially an alcoholic drink.
I've found some comments on recreational drug forums from people who've tried it, but I won't post links because I think the rules here don't allow it. I've also found what is claimed to be the abstract of a medical paper on the effectiveness of using ingested cocaine as part of a treatment program for people who are addicted to cocaine.