Depression : State of mind or Medical condition

paradisiac said:
so depression, is it something you can just get yourself out of by changing your lifestyle. or is it an actual medical condition that without the right help/advice is something you will keep slipping back into?
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Medical condition, but one that can be affected by your lifestyle.

I was diagnosed with depression in my teens and it's something that I've had to fight with at least once a year in the 20 or so years since. Found that pills didn;t really help, they only made me feel numb, which was worse in some way than being depressed.

I find that regular exercise does a lot to keep my mood 'up', but I can have days where everything seems black and pointless and I struggle to convince myself to get out of bed. These feelings can descend suddenly and without warning, even when life is good, and affect my self esteem and confidence as well as my general 'mood'.

People who say it's just a case of 'pulling your socks up' and 'people have it far worse that you' have absolutely no concept of what depression really is or how it manifests itself.
 
paradisiac said:
ok, again, this point interests me. the people i know that claim to be 'depressed' to me dont seem to be anything other than living a poor lifestyle (council house, no job.....) and seem to be given 'happy pills'. which then lead me to think that maybe doctors were a bit quick to get someone in and out. but then maybe i do know people that have jobs, their own house etc but dont go round telling everyone they are depressed.

at the moment i am going through a tough time, and it has been said that i 'appear' depressed. but i dont feel like im medically ill, i just feel that with everything going on in my life at the moment im on a low. therefore believe that once i sort out where my head is at, i will pick up again without the need of doctors etc.
whereas i believe there are certain people suffer from some chemical/hormone inbalance which no matter what would never get their head right without intervention from a doc/psychiatrist.
so i guess that would mean i believe in a clear difference between being emotionally low and being depressed.
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There is a difference to being 'on a low' and real depression, as you say, you believe you will pick yourself up again, but what if you didn't have that belief?, you seem to be judging depression sorely on your own ability to cope with a down period, you don't know how other people feel, imagine waking up tomorrow and losing that belief in yourself?, imagine also you started to have thoughts of suicide, I'm not talking "oh life is hard perhaps I should consider suicide" kind of thoughts, I'm talking about unwanted thoughts of self harm in your head, feeling trapped, self hatred, low self esteem, depression can be very dark, but at the same time that doesn't mean you have a big scar on your forehead to denote your mental anguish, or that your rolling around on the floor, the road to being completely broken can be a long and arduous one, many suffer in silence, with a seemingly outwardly 'normal' appearance.
 
lowrider007 said:
There is a difference to being 'on a low' and real depression, as you say, you believe you will pick yourself up again, but what if you didn't have that belief?, you seem to be judging depression sorely on your own ability to cope with a down period, you don't know how other people feel, imagine waking up tomorrow and losing that belief in yourself?, imagine also you started to have thoughts of suicide, I'm not talking "oh life is hard perhaps I should consider suicide" kind of thoughts, I'm talking about unwanted thoughts of self harm in your head, feeling trapped, self hatred, low self esteem, depression can be very dark, but at the same time that doesn't mean you have a big scare on your forehead to denote your mental anguish, or that your rolling around on the floor, the road to being completely broken can be a long and arduous one, many suffer in silence, with a seemingly outwardly 'normal' appearance.
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i wasnt basing it on my own ability to coupe, i was mearly using that as an example. i also stated that i believe there is a medical form of depression, but i also feel there is a distinction between being depressed and just feeling low and needing a change of lifestyle or a goal to aim for to pick yourself up. yes a lot of it is down to will power, but if a doctor just gives you pills to mask your sadness, surely you will just be dependant on those to live your day. or do they give you the confidence to change your life and find the way out of the sadness.
also, does what you describe, someone feeling low, not having self belief then lead to depression? or did they have depression in the beginning which caused them to feel low in the first place?

i suppose from what i have read so far there seems to be 2 kinds of depression. 1. that is purley medical and no matter what you will suffer and 2. one where your lifestyle gets to a point where you just cant coupe, causing you to slip into a downspiral into depression

or have i completly miss understood (which believe me, happens a lot)
 
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Ephemera said:
This is exactly how I started. I was diagnosed with depression in 2009 and have battled against it since. At first I felt great but it soon descended into chaos, getting no more than a few hours of sleep a week at best. If anyone reading thinks they may have depression then go to the doctors straight away, do not leave it.
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Hmm, I'm not sure about what I would do. If I ever felt down to the point I was considered 'depressed' then I'd be scared I'd be walking around the rest of my life thinking 'oooo it's this way because I'm deptessed' rather than 'ooooo I'm being a bit rubbish and need to man up'.

This stems from the attitude I get from people who have been diagnosed with clinical depression - holy **** do they bang on about it. Saying that, I once found out from someone they were depressed and I had known them for years, they had been diagnosed but hadn't told a soul. It was this person who to my eyes was the only one that had serious problems as I was told she needed people to physically move her out of bed everyday or she just would refuse to move. It's the former attitude (constantly bringing it up) that makes people think depression is an excuse (or rather a justification) to be rubbish.

Again, just my own non-directional musings.
 
paradisiac said:
i wasnt basing it on my own ability to coupe, i was mearly using that as an example. i also stated that i believe there is a medical form of depression, but i also feel there is a distinction between being depressed and just feeling low and needing a change of lifestyle or a goal to aim for to pick yourself up. yes a lot of it is down to will power, but if a doctor just gives you pills to mask your sadness, surely you will just be dependant on those to live your day. or do they give you the confidence to change your life and find the way out of the sadness.
also, does what you describe, someone feeling low, not having self belief then lead to depression? or did they have depression in the beginning which caused them to feel low in the first place?
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There are too many variables and different circumstances to offer a conclusive answer tbh, anecdotally speaking I know some people that have taken medication and it has changed their life, others have just became addicted to their meds with no real improvement, the thing is, it's not even as simple as will meds work or not because there are so many different types of medications out there that may or may not help depending on brain chemistry and the individuals psyche, the same applies to therapies also, Do I believe that depression is clinical based, yes and no, that being said do you believe we all have a breaking point?

If your interested in this watch these,

Stephen Fry-The Secret Life Of The Manic Depressive,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3EacQ4GfiU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0NjS-_iPCI
 
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lowrider007 said:
Do I believe that depression is clinical based, yes and no, that being said do you believe we all have a breaking point?
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yes i believe we all have a line, that once crossed is hard to get back from.
i suppose the thing that interested me was, is depression always there and is triggered by certain things, or do certain things cause you to get depression.
so are we all walking round with the possibility that it could happen at any given moment no matter what your lifestyle/circumstances are, or are only some people in this boat. or do we all have the ability to become depressed if enough unfortunate events tip us over the edge. or both
 
paradisiac said:
yeh i wasnt looking for a diagnosis. i am happy within myself that the problem will go away. it just made me think if there was a clear distinction and whether it was becoming too easy to get miss-diagnosed as with the way things are at the moment, im sure there are a lot of people that feeling low and possibly display symptoms of depression.
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Well there is always that danger when something is being subjectively diagnosed. If there was a definite single cause and a test to determine whether it was positive or negative in a person we could be sure of ourselves. But there isn't so a diagnosis will always be subjective. But that is the same for all these things whether they be depression, Asperger's, ASD etc. The ends of the spectrums are easy to describe - the middle parts not so much. For example with Aspergers we have a clear failure to diagnose in girls because the tools do not fit them well. So girls are under-diagnosed. That does not mean that we have to throw massive resources at every case mind you. And herewith lies the problem with giving a single name to a complex thing. We happily accepted years ago that complicated things such as people should be treated differently and yet we fail to use the same methodology with complex diseases. Things are changing now though for the better quite rapidly.
 
Dolph said:
Neither and both, it depends on the type of depression and whether it originates physically or mentally.
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Are you implying that the mind isn't physical
​
?.

What do you mean specifically by none-physical?.

Depression like all conditions are as real as a cold, or the flu - the brain is just another organ, as prone to failure as the rest.

MRI scans of the human brain of people with various mental illnesses are different to normal people, these are scientifically observable conditions.

The problem with "mental issues" is that they are still fighting against the "classical/primitive" view of the mind/soul being separate from the body (which is utter tosh).
 
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elmarko1234 said:
Are you implying that the mind isn't physical
​
?.

What do you mean specifically by none-physical?.

Depression like all conditions are as real as a cold, or the flu - the brain is just another organ, as prone to failure as the rest.

MRI scans of the human brain of people with various mental illnesses are different to normal people, these are scientifically observable conditions.

The problem with "mental issues" is that they are still fighting against the "classical/primitive" view of the mind/soul being separate from the body (which is utter tosh).
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i think they meant more on the lines of something you can physically see/feel ie back back, aching etc rather than the brain not being a physical quantity.

dont MRI scans cost a fair bit, so in most cases wouldnt be used to diagnose the problems? this is where my ignornace, which i fully admit to, shows. it fascinates me that its as common as it is, but i know very little about it. i guess its one of those things maybe people dont like to admit to having, or maybe its something that people feel is best to be dealt with internally and without everyone sticking their nose in.
 
paradisiac said:
i think they meant more on the lines of something you can physically see/feel ie back back, aching etc rather than the brain not being a physical quantity.

dont MRI scans cost a fair bit, so in most cases wouldnt be used to diagnose the problems? this is where my ignornace, which i fully admit to, shows. it fascinates me that its as common as it is, but i know very little about it. i guess its one of those things maybe people dont like to admit to having, or maybe its something that people feel is best to be dealt with internally and without everyone sticking their nose in.
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If it can be used to diagnose I couldn't say (I don't possess that level of information on the subject) - but you are right in that people see mental illness differently.

Person A having a breakdown is judged almost as a failing of character, while person B getting cancer is seen as a external event which is attacking the individual.

This is partly due to fundamental attribution error in some cases, as when a cause is unclear or invisible (mental issues) as humans we tend to over ascribe personality based reasons for a persons problems (as opposed to medical, illness, external or scientific reasons).

The brain does need to be viewed a complex organ, one that responds well to positive stimulus, badly to negative stimulus & is prone to error.

A good example of the force home the concept of how the mind is linked physically is people with damage brains, with certain areas destroyed by weapons fire, car crashes or other injuries.

When people lose the ability to count, talk, smell, or be creative & conceptualize due to missing a section of the brain.
 
elmarko1234 said:
If it can be used to diagnose I couldn't say (I don't possess that level of information on the subject) - but you are right in that people see mental illness differently.

Person A having a breakdown is judged almost as a failing of character, while person B getting cancer is seen as a external event which is attacking the individual.

This is partly due to fundamental attribution error in some cases, as when a cause is unclear or invisible (mental issues) as humans we tend to over ascribe personality based reasons for a persons problems (as opposed to medical, illness, external or scientific reasons).

The brain does need to be viewed a complex organ, one that responds well to positive stimulus, badly to negative stimulus & is prone to error.

A good example of the force home the concept of how the mind is linked physically is people with damage brains, with certain areas destroyed by weapons fire, car crashes or other injuries.

When people lose the ability to count, talk, smell, or be creative & conceptualize due to missing a section of the brain.
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again i find it fascinating peoples views on mental health issues. its such a broad area, but most people when they hear the term 'mental illness' associate it with the most severe cases.
i have been unfortunate that my grandad has been having some problems (due to age i think) with his memory. where he has been given excerises to train different parts of the brain to do the jobs of the parts that arent working properly anymore. again, this is something that fascinates me. the fact you can train it in such a way.
 
The word "depression" in colloquial use is different from the medical disease. "I'm feeling a bit depressed" just means you are feeling down.

"After his best friend died he fell into a depression."
"He went bankrupt and had to sell his house, he's been in a depression for months."

= Natural, not biologically caused. Might be serious but counselling/therapy is the best approach.

Having to resort to electro-convulsive therapy because you simply want to die 24 hours a day = biological disease with no visible cause.

Depression as an illness is a very wide term ranging from bad to utterly life-destroying. It can be incredibly bad, something totally different to what a normal person will ever experience in their life.
 
Some say depression is caused by the stress of today's society if you cant change society then society changes you.
 
lowrider007 said:
You say you can just "leave work behind" as soon as you leave the office yet you require a drug ("dooby") to help facilitate that.
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nah, the dooby is for the 40min journey home where someone will inevitably try and cut me up or ram me off the road (i.e. almost force me into oncoming traffic as they dont understand the odd roundabout on the way home). ive had 2 near accidents in 3 journeys home this week.

i also use a drug to wake up at work - coffee.
 
Only ever get depression for a couple of days when on a come down.

'What am I doing with my life' crops up in me head a few times during which time.
 
paradisiac said:
i was unaware that you could also get physical symptoms aswell.

so can depression be hereditary?
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yes. stress and depression is well known to be linked to your stomach. depression can certainly run in the family. my wife's brother, mother and father all suffer. although her mum was brought up in house where the father abused both kids so i guess thats understandable.

my wife, her brother and father have basically had easy lives so no real reason for depression but they all get it. really badly at times and they all withdraw.

my wife actually still smokes pot too and that helps tremendously with depression. she rarely has issues these days. of course you wont find any governments backing this up but plenty of scientists will agree.
 
paradisiac said:
see this interests me. do doctors just play the depression card too quickly because someone is feeling low? is there a clear distinction between someone going through a rough patch in their life make them over emotional and have similar symptoms to depression, and someone who is medically depressed? or are they one in the same, just at different ends of the spectrum?
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drs are all too ready to throw tablets at things. they wanted me to take SSRI's as i have had issues sleeping for years. i told them i was ok but they said try it. after 2 weeks i just didnt feel right in myself and felt a general apathy to things. they mainly seem to level out peaks and troughs. basically my head thinks and designs things when i should be sleeping. meaning it takes ages to get off and i wake up every 30-60 mins and have done for 24 years since i was 13. oddly this all started when i moved bedroom next to the kitchen and could hear a dripping tap all night. i guess this used to bug me so much i would be kept awake and my sleep problem started.

my wife is on citalopram (sp?) which is the one they gave me. my wife doesnt get the lows but she also doesnt get the happy highs she would get if she stopped them (she had to come off them when pregnant)
 
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