Tourists Banned From Dutch Cannabis Cafes

Robbo · 29 Apr 2012 at 13:50

mattyfez said:
Normal circles? do you mean your circle?

Please don't ask me what 'normal' means. Look it up on http://www.wikipedia.org/ if you get confused.

No, I'm talking about the majority of people being the 'norm' as that is what you are talking about when you say ubiquitous.

Implying that everyone has the ability to obtain cannabis as easily as they can alcohol is simply wrong, there's no discussion to be had about it, as Moses and semi-pro waster have pointed out.

Some people may, most people don't.

Kenai · 29 Apr 2012 at 13:52

Cannabis is not as ubiquitous as alcohol, nowhere near.

You can buy alcohol at the corner shop, in the pub, from a 24h supermarket, you can get it delivered whenever you want, people gift it at holiday periods, some workplaces provide it for free at work nights out, you have it with posh meals at high class restaurants or at home with the football etc etc. etc.

Being able to phone up a dealer or a mate who smokes a few joints does not make it anywhere NEAR as ubiquitous as alcohol, to assert as much is absolutely ludicrous.

mattyfez · 29 Apr 2012 at 13:57

Robbo said:
No, I'm talking about the majority of people being the 'norm' as that is what you are talking about when you say ubiquitous.

Implying that everyone has the ability to obtain cannabis as easily as they can alcohol is simply wrong, there's no discussion to be had about it, as Moses and semi-pro waster have pointed out.

Some people may, most people don't.

Agreed, but your use of the word 'ubiquitous' was a bit sweeping.
Semi-Pro made a good point - let's get back on topic.

spudbynight · 29 Apr 2012 at 14:00

Kenai said:
Being able to phone up a dealer or a mate who smokes a few joints does not make it anywhere NEAR as ubiquitous as alcohol, to assert as much is absolutely ludicrous.

I have no idea where to get dope from these days. I don't know anyone to call.

I know where I can get whatever alcohol I want.

When I was in my early 20s I could get either whenever I wanted - however the world is not composed of people in their 20s.

steve-h · 29 Apr 2012 at 14:05

I love how everyone jumps on a totally unimportant point...

mattyfez · 29 Apr 2012 at 14:10

steve-h said:
I love how everyone jumps on a totally unimportant point...

That's acually quite poignant - love it or loath it, the fact is Cannabis is not going anywhere, regardless of law.

The trick is, how do we manage the situation effectivley?

EDIT: Seems to me the Dutch are taking a step backwards with this move.

Threepwood · 29 Apr 2012 at 14:36

This seems like a somewhat pointless direction to the conversation where there's an argument about the relative ubiquity of the various substances. Just because for some people it's potentially easier to get one substance than the other doesn't necessarily translate well to the rest of the country and perhaps more importantly does it really matter?

Well thats the whole point of 'relative' is it not? That's exactly the point, for some it's more ubiquitous than others, depending on where you live.

Only following the direction of the thread, comparing there to here and alcohol to cannabis....

... any hooos. Back on topic. Lets say it does go through, maybe there would be a silver lining? Other countries, including ours, might follow suit and allow other 'coffee' shop 'clubs' to open?

mattyfez · 29 Apr 2012 at 15:07

shadesofgrey said:
might follow suit and allow other 'coffee' shop 'clubs' to open?

I've not considered that... could be interesting, it would surely set some kind of precedent in EU law, because let's face it, they are gonna have to rubber stamp something

.

Energize · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:14

shadesofgrey said:
Yeah, but that happened right before the new guidelines no? And he was growing outside, any idea how many he was growing? How large and what weight? Without knowing any of the mitigating features of the case I cant really comment I do really feel for the guy tho. Sucks. Esp when you can grow some reeeeeealllllllyyyyyy dangerous plants if you like with no fear at all.

The judges are the real criminals in this country.

Energize · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:31

Moses said:
Why?

Wrongly imprisoning people because of their private activities in many areas of life, including drug choice. That is a far worse crime than most.

Robbo · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:36

Energize said:
Wrongly imprisoning people because of their private activities in many areas of life, including drug choice. That is a far worse crime than most.

It's their job to imprison people who (especially knowingly) break the law.

I don't see how that is a 'crime', it's entirely the fault of the person committing the offence.

Energize · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:41

Robbo said:
It's their job to imprison people who (especially knowingly) break the law.

I don't see how that is a 'crime', it's entirely the fault of the person committing the offence.

The nuremburg judges would disagree. Judges are responsible for their own actions, saying it's their job or they were told to do so is no defence.

Robbo · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:45

Energize said:
The nuremburg judges would disagree. Judges are responsible for their own actions, saying it's their job or they were told to do so is no defence.

What should they do then when a person who has broken the law is on trial? Say "Oh well, never mind, that's a stupid law anyway, let him/her go"? :confused:

Energize · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:51

Robbo said:
What should they do then when a person who has broken the law is on trial? Say "Oh well, never mind, that's a stupid law anyway, let him/her go"?

That's a reasonable option, or they could resign which has happened numerous times in the past when unethical laws were introduced.

Nitefly · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:53

These conversations always go this way. It's extremely difficult to justify the illegality of certain drugs without resorting to 'moral panic'.

Robbo · 29 Apr 2012 at 20:57

Energize said:
That's a reasonable option, or they could resign which has happened numerous times in the past when unethical laws were introduced.

I don't think they can actually do that though. Also, when people are knowingly breaking the law it adds an additional degree of malice to their actions.

None of this makes the judges 'criminals', to suggest such a thing is quite frankly daft.

Judgeneo · 29 Apr 2012 at 21:04

Question:

If cannabis was legal in the country, and regulated in the same way alcohol currently is, would you try it? Bare in mind you can take it in multiple forms (eating, smoking, rubbing creams, pills etc..)

Robbo · 29 Apr 2012 at 21:05

Moses said:
People kinda lose credibility when they start comparing judges enforcing drug laws with judges who were put on trial for,

Quite different...

Just a little bit, yes.

Energize · 29 Apr 2012 at 21:44

Moses said:
People kinda lose credibility when they start comparing judges enforcing drug laws with judges who were put on trial for,

Quite different...

Way to miss the point.

Robbo said:
I don't think they can actually do that though. Also, when people are knowingly breaking the law it adds an additional degree of malice to their actions.

None of this makes the judges 'criminals', to suggest such a thing is quite frankly daft.

Yeah, someone who wants pain relief from terminal illness is demonstrating malice...

To do something as unethical as what these judges are doing is criminal. The sheer spinelessness of them disgusts me.

Energize · 29 Apr 2012 at 21:50

Moses said:
No, because the things are so different, it doesn't apply. Being involved with enforcing drugs laws is almost not comparable to stealing Jewish assets and facilitating genocide.

You're still missing the point. They ruled that judges have responsibility for their actions regardless of national law, the specific actions are not relevant.