Spec me a knife set - £100 budget

[Imy]

Hi all. I'm new to this part of the forum so thought I'd start with a little background of my cooking knowledge and experience.

I have none. With that over with, I'm after some new knives as I've been using a cheap set for years now which were pretty much blunt from day one. The final straw was having to use both hands and most of my body weight to slice a potato in half after deciding to have a go at making my own chips.

I cook maybe 4-6 meals a week. I need knives suitable for cutting the following foods:

• bread products (but not an entire loaf)
• chicken breast
• sirloin steak
• large potatoes
• other common vegetables
• removing damaged bits from an apple

So I'm guessing a heavy meat knife of some sort, a bread knife (but not the really long ones), a multi-purpose knife and a small knife for fruit which shouldn't be too sharp.

Budget is about £100 but can go up a bit if it's really worth it. I would also like the knives to come in a knife block and bonus if a sharpener is included. I don't mind buying the knife block and knives separately.

I appreciate any suggestions

 

[Youstolemyname]

Best thing to do is go out and hold the knives first. What feels too light to one person will be too heavy to another.

Pop down to a department or specialist household store and take it from there.

Storage is important as is a good sharpening steel too.

 

[Paul11]

i have found a bread knife and a good chefs knife was all i needed

worth spending good money on buying one or two good knifes

 

[Imy]

Best thing to do is go out and hold the knives first. What feels too light to one person will be too heavy to another.

Pop down to a department or specialist household store and take it from there.

That might be a little overkill for my limited use/budget. So long as they are of a fairly standard design I'm sure I'll be fine. I'm more concerned with long term durability and how frequently they need to be sharpened. Both of which I'm hoping I can learn about from peoples' personal experiences on here.

I'm not sure I've even ever come across a store around here that has sharp knives out on display for customers to handle...

Storage is important as is a good sharpening steel too.

I've seen knife blocks on their own which can use up my entire budget and then some. I have seen some nice features though like magnets inside which keep the weight off the blade edge and/or built-in sharpners.

i have found a bread knife and a good chefs knife was all i needed

worth spending good money on buying one or two good knifes

That makes a lot of sense actually. If I go this route though I'd like to be fairly confident that other knives in the range will still be available later on should I wish to complete my own collection.

 

[alexakasloth]

I agree with Paul, a good chefs knife and bread knife is better than a whole set of cheap knives. I picked up a cheap victorinox paring knife for 3/4 pounds though and it's great, out of the packaging it's ultra sharp and seems to keep sharp for a while.

I believe it's this one: http://www.russums-shop.co.uk/knive...ictorinox-plastic-handle-paring-knife-3-pp908

A shop may let you hold the knife out of the packaging to test how it feels, is there a shop called Steamer Trading around your area? I've found their selection to be good and they let you hold a knife to see if it feels right.

 

[Doctor McNinja]

Best thing to do is go out and hold the knives first. What feels too light to one person will be too heavy to another.

Pop down to a department or specialist household store and take it from there.

Storage is important as is a good sharpening steel too.

Apart from "sharpening steel", this is right. Holding the knife is particularly important before you buy because if you don't like the handle then it'll make using the knife a choir.

I'd recommend you spend most of the budget on a good chef's knife and a good sharpener*. I pairing knife can be had for peanuts and if you're only using it for digging the eyes out of potatoes and bad apples etc., it'd be silly to spend too much. As for a bread knife, I've got one by JML, it cost about a fiver and after roughly five years of use, it's till as good as ever... unfortunately, they don't stock it anymore.


I was given the following as a Christmas gift and, although you can't beat a whetstone and steel, I'd recommend it along with a Henckels knife (I like the handles on their 4 star range) - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Henckels-Tw...WV9H/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1335838377&sr=8-1

 

[Imy]

Hi, first of all thanks for all the replies.

One thing which I didn't mention earlier which I should have is that I would like a matching block set which means no mixing/matching of knife brands but don't mind spending the bulk of my budget on a block + 2 knives + sharpner and add additional knives at a later date. The block should also be black or silver in colour to match my kitchen.

There are no Streamer Trading stores near me unfortunately and the nearest John Lewis will cost me £12 to visit.


I think we need a starting point so here's what I've come up with so far. Let me know if you have any suggestions on how to improve my choices:

• Magnetic Knife Holder 47cm ~£8
• Minosharp Universal Water Sharpener ~£25
• Victorinox 22cm Chef's Knife ~£26
• Victorinox Pastry Knife ~£24
• Victorinox Paring Knife 8cm ~£6

Total: ~£89

 

[glitch]

One thing which I didn't mention earlier which I should have is that I would like a matching block set which means no mixing/matching of knife brands but don't mind spending the bulk of my budget on a block + 2 knives + sharpner and add additional knives at a later date. The block should also be black or silver in colour to match my kitchen.

The best mid-range knife set that I've used is the Robert Welch Signature range.

For the money, I really don't think you can do too much better. They feel fantastic in the hand, they are easy to use and they stay very sharp with only an occasional swipe through the sharpener.

I bought a friend a set of them well over a year ago (more like 18-months if anything) and she is absolutely useless at looking after them. They get thrown in the washing-up basin with other stuff, dropped on the floor, used to open things they shouldn't be, etc.

Amazingly they have stood up to all the misuse - I sharpened them on Friday evening with the Signature Sharpener and they still cut just as well as they did when they were taken out of the packet.

On the downside you don't seem to be able to buy the block separately, although you really want to use a magnetic strip if you have the space for one as it's cheaper and better for your knives. But on the upside, Lakeland sell the range so you get a free lifetime guarantee if you buy from them.

I've got a set of Tojiro Senkou Damascus knives which are my pride and joy. But if they got stolen tomorrow and I had to replace them... I'd probably go with those Robert Welch blades. They're that good.

I think we need a starting point so here's what I've come up with so far. Let me know if you have any suggestions on how to improve my choices:

My suggestion would be that if you're going to buy cheap knives, buy cheap knives.

Don't buy overpriced junk like those Victorinox when you could get similar stuff for a third of the cost from somewhere like Nisbets.

 

[Imy]

I've read quite a lot of reviews now and yours is the first to have anything negative to say about the Victorinox range.

The Robert Welch Signature knives do look like higher quality but according to Which? magazine which uses a computer-controlled knife testing rig to test sharpness and durability, the Victorinox scored higher in the sharpness category (4 stars vs 3 stars) and higher overall (78% vs 70%). I don't think Which? reviews take price into account either.

I am still considering the Robert Welch Signature knives however as they do look a lot better and are almost twice the weight of the Victorinox. My hands aren't the steadiest so the extra weight might help there.

p.s. the block is available separately but costs in the region of £100 i.e. my entire budget.

 

[HeadlessChicken]

I have a Robert Welch large santoku (~£35). It is an amazing knife. I would recommend a decent mid-range (WR or similar) cooks knife and utility knife. Probably £50ish. A cheapy bread knife for now (£15), a holder / block (£15) and spend the last £20 on a half decent steel.

 

[Imy]

What's a santoku? Are handheld sharpners like this one:

http://www.robertwelch.com/Products/Default.aspx?id=1091160&tid=104

better or worse than steels? The handheld units look easier to use but don't know if they're any good.

I'm gonna try to use a magnetic wall-mountable strip for knife storage as they should work and look well with any brand of knife and also save a lot of money. Most knife brands seem to offer only a limited choice of blocks and they are quite expensive.

 

[glitch]

I've read quite a lot of reviews now and yours is the first to have anything negative to say about the Victorinox range.

There's nothing wrong with them, and perhaps referring to them as 'junk' was a little strong, but when you can get a similar stamped stainless-steel nylon-handled knife for much less, albeit without the Victorinox name emblazoned across the blade, I wonder why they command such a high price.

Sure, they get used in professional kitchens a lot. So do Hygiplas. So do Swibo, Granton, Smithfield and a whole host of others. My point is that you can get very similar knives for significantly less and I'm not seeing anything that special about the Victorinox knives - unless it's the Fibrox handle and the ice-hardening that add an edge, if you pardon the pun.

If you really want to stick with the Which? recommendation, go for the 20cm Deep/Broad Chef's Knife as your main blade as that's got the best dimensions for chopping. Pair that with the 21cm Bread Knife, a small paring knife and a decent sharpener and you'll have enough change for a magnetic knife strip.

 

[glitch]

What's a santoku?

A specific design of knife blade. Typically one with a flat edge and a handle that runs parallel with the top of the blade - you'll also see them with little 'scallops' on the edges of the blade if they are a Western-focused design.

They are used more for an up and down 'chopping' action rather than slicing.

Are handheld sharpners like this one:

http://www.robertwelch.com/Products/Default.aspx?id=1091160&tid=104

better or worse than steels? The handheld units look easier to use but don't know if they're any good.

I have no issue with them, but some people hate them and some people eulogise about them.

Different strokes for different folks, but you just need to use the correct type of sharpener for the blades you have. Plenty of info in here on that.

 

[Jolteh]

There's nothing wrong with them, and perhaps referring to them as 'junk' was a little strong, but when you can get a similar stamped stainless-steel nylon-handled knife for much less, albeit without the Victorinox name emblazoned across the blade, I wonder why they command such a high price.

Sure, they get used in professional kitchens a lot. So do Hygiplas. So do Swibo, Granton, Smithfield and a whole host of others. My point is that you can get very similar knives for significantly less and I'm not seeing anything that special about the Victorinox knives - unless it's the Fibrox handle and the ice-hardening that add an edge, if you pardon the pun.

If you really want to stick with the Which? recommendation, go for the 20cm Deep/Broad Chef's Knife as your main blade as that's got the best dimensions for chopping. Pair that with the 21cm Bread Knife, a small paring knife and a decent sharpener and you'll have enough change for a magnetic knife strip.

You're blowing my mind here.

Junk? Overpriced? I use two knives, a fibrox chefs and paring. Got them together and paid less than £20. The chefs knife is so sharp I can use it instead of a serrated bread knife to slice bread.

I've had them for coming up to a year now, and I think they're as good as the day I got them. People are always commenting on how sharp they are and how nice they are to use.

Personally, I'm loyal for life. Can't see how it could be possible to get something that does it job better for the price. As long as they keep making them, I'll keep buying them and recommending them.

 

[glitch]

Junk? Overpriced? I use two knives, a fibrox chefs and paring. Got them together and paid less than £20. The chefs knife is so sharp I can use it instead of a serrated bread knife to slice bread.

Calling them junk was admittedly naive of me at best, and plain erroneous at worse, but I don't think I was incorrect in saying they were overpriced for what they appear to be.

You can buy knives with blades made from the same material, created by much the same process and with handles made from a very similar material for a fair bit less money. To me, that makes them overpriced.

I've looked for as much information on them as I could gather and I'm not really seeing what makes them worth the extra. But as I alluded to in a previous post, the additional cost is probably partly down to the name, the ice-hardening process and the Fibrox handles.

If you think they are worth the extra money, then I'm inclined to bow to your superior knowledge. You don't really strike me as someone who would throw around recommendations without due cause or just to prove a point.

 

[beh]

I've looked for as much information on them as I could gather and I'm not really seeing what makes them worth the extra

I could say the same about the Robert Welch knives, in that the marketing spiel is pretty vague, but I haven't used them so I'm not in a position to comment. I'm assuming you've used both the Victorinox and Welch knives?

 

[glitch]

I could say the same about the Robert Welch knives, in that the marketing spiel is pretty vague, but I haven't used them so I'm not in a position to comment.

Everything you'd need to know about the RW knives are on the website for all to see - forged blades made from German DIN 1.4116 stainless steel, hardened to Rockwell 55-56, full tang, weighted bolster, unique blade design, etc. Sure, the information is mostly marketing guff, but there's some useful titbits there.

However, the biggest selling point of the RW knives is the design of them and the shape of the blade - something that is totally unique and that really sets them apart from other knives in a similar price-range.

All I can find on the Victorinox is that they are stamped from a sheet of high-carbon stainless steel, have no tang or bolster and feature a Fibrox handle. Apart from the material used in the handle, that's pretty common for knives aimed at use in a commercial kitchen.

The selling point of the Victorinox? Presumably the connection with the famous utility knife and the history and prestige associated with that.

I'm assuming you've used both the Victorinox and Welch knives?

I've regularly used the RW knives, which is why I hold them in such high regard, and I think I've used the Victorinox ones as well, although I can't honestly say for sure.

I was doing something at a cookery school and the knives they used were all-but identical to the Victorinox, but I didn't stop to check the name as there wasn't anything left on the blade to check!

They could equally have been Hygiplas or a similar brand but I do remember thinking the handles had this weird, almost spongy texture.

 

[Imy]

A specific design of knife blade. Typically one with a flat edge and a handle that runs parallel with the top of the blade - you'll also see them with little 'scallops' on the edges of the blade if they are a Western-focused design.

They are used more for an up and down 'chopping' action rather than slicing.

Thanks for explaining. I think I'll avoid - I don't trust myself with "chopping" actions!

I have no issue with them, but some people hate them and some people eulogise about them.

Different strokes for different folks, but you just need to use the correct type of sharpener for the blades you have. Plenty of info in here on that.

I'll give the handheld type a go then if opinions are split as it looks easier to use.

The chefs knife is so sharp I can use it instead of a serrated bread knife to slice bread.

I've had them for coming up to a year now, and I think they're as good as the day I got them. People are always commenting on how sharp they are and how nice they are to use.

Personally, I'm loyal for life. Can't see how it could be possible to get something that does it job better for the price. As long as they keep making them, I'll keep buying them and recommending them.

Good to hear - thanks.

I've looked for as much information on them as I could gather and I'm not really seeing what makes them worth the extra. But as I alluded to in a previous post, the additional cost is probably partly down to the name, the ice-hardening process and the Fibrox handles.

From what I've read so far, they offer sharpness, durability and comfort which is comparable to premium brands but at a much lower cost. This next bit is pure speculation but I'm guessing the swiss knife heritage got the ball rolling and the good reviews and low price made them popular over cheaper and less known brands in the long term.

Well I've just ordered my knife rack: Stellar Magnetic Knife Rack - 500mm

At £25 it costs a fair bit more than the £8-£10 ones I was originally looking at but I'm hoping the extra size will come in useful for other metal utensils and I liked the design.

As for the knives, I'm torn between the great bang for buck Victorinox range and the quality look of the Robert Welch Signature range. I just need to add up the costs if I got all the knives I wanted from the RW range and see if I'm willing to spend the extra.

Thank you all for your replies so far.

 

[alexakasloth]

I've used the victorinox knives for a few months in my first kitchen job and they are OK but for the price range I preferred the stellar sabatier chefs knife as the handle felt better. I wouldn't purchase a Véritable Sabatier again though, I had a bread knife and after dropping it once the riveted handle fell apart. If you can a Henkels 4 star is a fantastic knife, nice and heavy (good for large food stuffs like potatoes) and stays sharp.

As far as sharpening goes the ceramic sharpeners are OK but I find a diamond (which can be purchased for the same price) is gives better results.

I would purchase these:

Cooks Knife: http://www.nisbets.co.uk/Cooks-Knives/CF832/ProductDetail.raction
Paring Knife: http://www.nisbets.co.uk/Victorinox-Parer/C652/ProductDetail.raction
Diamond Steel: http://www.nisbets.co.uk/Victorinox-Diamond-Steel/GD047/ProductDetail.raction

 

[beh]

forged blades made from German DIN 1.4116 stainless steel

I find it slightly odd that they don't say where they're made, is the above an attempt to make us think they're made in Germany?

I think I've used the Victorinox ones as well, although I can't honestly say for sure.

That was my problem given your initial comments. I don't doubt the Welch knives are decent on your recommendation but if you've perhaps not used any Victorinox knives then holding quite a strong opinion on them isn't very useful.