Tourists Banned From Dutch Cannabis Cafes

[Freefaller]

It depends how long the effects last for, I think they do last for last for less than alcohol does but I don't know. I wouldn't care if my surgeon smoked as long as he wasn't under the influence when he was doing it .

It's a fair point - fortunately they ban and sack pilots who fail the alcohol test - so there is still a modicum of control.

Having driven behind numerous cars smoking very strong weed, I can assure you their driving was appalling.

If you're going to take drugs, be it alcohol or the illegal kind, you have to take them with responsibility, discretion and in a mature fashion - which is not what I'm hearing from a lot of users here. All I hear is "I want to do drugs whenever I want, **** the government, **** the rules... blah blah blah". That to me comes across as immature.

Had the argument been "yes, I understand that drugs (including alcohol) should be treated with more care and respect and flagrant flaunting of their use is not really the way forward for a decent society" I'd probably be right there with you.

 

[Marky]

You can shove your rolleyes where the sun don't shine Marky

You don't stop drinking no, but you drink more responsibly, you become more responsible for your actions and understand that cause and effects that your actions have.

I'm not saying that if you smoke weed you are the pariah of society or you're scum - so calm your little tantrum down, I'm merely stating that in general, you have your fun, and then you tend to grow out of it. Not always I accept, and you can still be a good contributing member of society in spite of smoking lots of weed etc... however you tend to do it more responsibly, with discretion and not brag about it, or talk it up, and protect the younger members of this society from them.

I still think it's a little outrageous having this thread on here when there are so many kids reading this thinking "hang on, all these adults and people we look up to think it's cool and ok to take drugs... wicked."

If someone has an opposing argument in a debate it's not a "little tantrum", perhaps you should grow up a little bit?

It's pointless trying to have a mature conversation with you on this topic - It's a little disappointing considering I've always thought of you as fairly level headed with most discussions on here

 

[Freefaller]

Okay, That's a little clearer, thanks (I'm not bursting blood vessels tho )


You've hit on one of the other things about such things being illegal. It helps to make it 'cool' etc.

It's so interesting to see drug use go down in places like portugal after their recent change

Yeah, I'm under no illusion that moving it down the scale, and with responsible usage (including alcohol) the whole abuse, flaunting and flagrant nonchalance of it's use would decline - however, as a responsible adult, I make sure I don't drink and drive, or do anything that causes those around me issues. I'd have hoped regular drug users would do the same and show some maturity towards it's use - as some have done in this thread which is laudable - like the chap who smokes in the conservatory away from his child and very occasionally... whilst still not what I'd ever do, is a commendable and responsible way of being a user.

 

[Freefaller]

If someone has an opposing argument in a debate it's not a "little tantrum", perhaps you should grow up a little bit?

It's pointless trying to have a mature conversation with you on this topic - It's a little disappointing considering I've always thought of you as fairly level headed with most discussions on here

You're the one throwing your toys out of the pram sunshine. AS you can see I'm having a perfectly civil conversation with others, like shadesofgrey with whom I've had MANY tete-a-tetes with - however, he's applying a bit of maturity in his posts and isn't getting all hot under the collar.

I am level headed, in general, but some topics I do have strong opinions on, I can't be moderate on everything can I? Were I still a moderator, maybe I'd be less up for a scrap as I'd have to be impartial, but this is something I feel strongly about, yet all you're able to do is rolleyes at me and accuse me of having a tantrum doesn't amount to much maturity from you I'd have thought?

Still never mind - I did answer your points which you chose to ignore and have yet another pop at me and my personalty... Yet... I have to grow up? Nice!

 

[Threepwood]

If you're going to take drugs, be it alcohol or the illegal kind, you have to take them with responsibility, discretion and in a mature fashion - which is not what I'm hearing from a lot of users here. All I hear is "I want to do drugs whenever I want, **** the government, **** the rules... blah blah blah". That to me comes across as immature.

Arg. You miss the real point. The responsible adults who do take drugs like cannabis would like to be respected and not treated like criminals.

Copy paste one comment from this thread along the lines of "I want to do drugs whenever I want, **** the government, **** the rules... blah blah blah" Because I think you are just making that up in your head? while not accepting some of the very grown up 'pro' arguments for it. :epicsadface:

like shadesofgrey with whom I've had MANY tete-a-tetes with

Haha, I should apologise for some of those days actually. I've have excuses, but I wont bring them up. I'll just say a simple sorry freefaller

 

[Ahleckz]

Sounds like Freefaller needs a joint!

 

[Marky]

You're the one throwing your toys out of the pram sunshine. AS you can see I'm having a perfectly civil conversation with others, like shadesofgrey with whom I've had MANY tete-a-tetes with - however, he's applying a bit of maturity in his posts and isn't getting all hot under the collar.

I am level headed, in general, but some topics I do have strong opinions on, I can't be moderate on everything can I? Were I still a moderator, maybe I'd be less up for a scrap as I'd have to be impartial, but this is something I feel strongly about, yet all you're able to do is rolleyes at me and accuse me of having a tantrum doesn't amount to much maturity from you I'd have thought?

Still never mind - I did answer your points which you chose to ignore and have yet another pop at me and my personalty... Yet... I have to grow up? Nice!

Okay you've read me completely wrong then. Where did I say you were having a tantrum? Infact, you were the one that said I was having a tantrum?! So you're right that doesn't show a whole lot of maturity in your part.

Nevertheless, we should probably drop it "Sunshine".

 

[Freefaller]

Arg. You miss the real point. The responsible adults who do take drugs like cannabis would like to be respected and not treated like criminals.

Copy paste one comment from this thread along the lines of "I want to do drugs whenever I want, **** the government, **** the rules... blah blah blah" Because I think you are just making that up in your head? while not accepting some of the very grown up 'pro' arguments for it. :epicsadface:



Haha, I should apologise for those days actually. I've have excuses, but I wont bring them up. I'll just say a simple sorry freefaller

Hehe - it's cool mate, it was always good discussing things with you! It's fascinating having stimulating conversations - it'd be more fun down the pub getting pis.... erm.. wait!!

Ok, I'm not expressing myself perhaps as carefully as I should be - |I think what I'm driving at are the numerous groups of drug users.

a) the casual responsible ones (presumably the majority of the people on here, though by some of the comments I'm not sure)
b) the younger more impressionable types or those with personalities that are susceptible to influences from others, that do things because of something rather because they WANT to.
c) the die hard rebel who is anti establishment, and thinks that having a more anarchic freedom would be better.

The first I have less of an issue with, as the likelyhood of them causing me issues are slim, the other 2 could potentially cause me bother. Also |I don't like the fact that this is fuelled by "dealers" and so on, it's just skimming the surface of a murky world which I don't understand why people would want to - with the potential of longer repercussions with law, criminality and so on... however, that's by the by, people make their own decisions.

Going back to the OP - why we are getting upset over another country tightening the rules on it's drugs policy is daft, if it really is as easy as that to get here, why be outraged at the fact that Amsterdam are doing it? The way I perceive it, and I admit perception is skewed as it's usually one way, and I cannot empathise with regular users or dealers or anything like that, is that there's something fundamentally wrong if such a song and dance has to be made for something like this....

We're going full circle here, it would be interesting though the de-criminilasation of it, but I'd be absolutely petrified of the long term implications to society and any potential dependencies on such products.

 

[Threepwood]

You guys....


We can agree to dissagree on some points yeah? We all know how wrriten conversations can be misconstrued eh? It's a form that misses various nuances that if spoken would have us laughing at each other, but when written gets our fangs out

 

[Freefaller]

Okay you've read me completely wrong then. Where did I say you were having a tantrum? Infact, you were the one that said I was having a tantrum?! So you're right that doesn't show a whole lot of maturity in your part.

Nevertheless, we should probably drop it "Sunshine".

Yes I think you should.

 

[Freefaller]

You guys....


We can agree to dissagree on some points yeah? We all know how wrriten conversations can be misconstrued eh? It's a form that misses various nuances that if spoken would have us laughing at each other, but when written gets our fangs out

Indeed - much more fun face to face, people tend to be less brave, and can express themselves better too.

 

[Tefal]

can we ban EU migrants from dole offices then?

 

[Tefal]

Ok, I'm not expressing myself perhaps as carefully as I should be - |I think what I'm driving at are the numerous groups of drug users.

a) the casual responsible ones (presumably the majority of the people on here, though by some of the comments I'm not sure)
b) the younger more impressionable types or those with personalities that are susceptible to influences from others, that do things because of something rather because they WANT to.
c) the die hard rebel who is anti establishment, and thinks that having a more anarchic freedom would be better.

you are missing D) they like to get high.

They aren't necessarily responsible or casual and don't need to be a rebel or anti establishment or give a **** what others think drugs are fun in their own right regardless of any "culture" or reason.

 

[Freefaller]

you are missing D) they like to get high.

They aren't necessarily responsible or casual and don't need to be a rebel or anti establishment or give a **** what others think drugs are fun in their own right regardless of any "culture" or reason.

Presumably that's why a,b,c take them, to get high? Why else would you take a drug? So I don't think it needs to be added to the list? That's the output of the intake of drugs... no? No one here takes them just for the sake of them I don't suppose...

 

[Threepwood]

Going back to the OP - why we are getting upset over another country tightening the rules on it's drugs policy is daft, if it really is as easy as that to get here, why be outraged at the fact that Amsterdam are doing it?

Well, for me I used to live in holland and I knew a fair ammount of shop owners and have a limited knowlage about the dutch as a society. As I mentioned earlier it's an interesting mix of far right wing and far left wing. I would hate to see the far right 'get away' with things like this.

The coalition current goverment is (touch wood) on it's way out and I see this as a last ditch attempt to either a: Leave a lasting legacy in spite or b: Grab as many new votes as they can from such an idea.

I care about the people there I guess, and I truely believe this will have a real negative effect on the country (it's a really lovely country).


The other thing. Is for the folk who actively would like cannabis decriminalised in this country see holland as an excellent example of how it can work, take part of that away and maybe you can see how it would leave us a little sad? As it's one great example of how it can work. However I guess the american states that have been decriminalising/making it availible for medical reasons, and places like portugal make up for it.

But holland is like the king/queen of countries for us. A shining light of reason if you will

 

[Freefaller]

|From what I gather having spoken to a few dutchies, is that there is a reasonably big split between society on the drugs in the first place? So it's not all that happy clappy (excuse the pun) there is it? It brings in itself its own issues? Otherwise it would be being discussed at all if it was perfect...

 

[Tefal]

Presumably that's why a,b,c take them, to get high? Why else would you take a drug? So I don't think it needs to be added to the list? That's the output of the intake of drugs... no? No one here takes them just for the sake of them I don't suppose...

well non of your options actaully seem to have anything to do with drugs at al lthat's why.

you don't need to be casual or responsible,so option A is ruled out for a large chunk (just look outside pubs on a Friday night for lack of casual and responsible same goes for illegal users)

B is a relitivly small group and doesn't last outside of teenagers, and group C is a tiny group of people who are just a bit weird.

it does ignore most of the users.

 

[Freefaller]

No you've misunderstood.

I was listing my general perception of the sort of people that would take drugs - and surely it's evident that getting high is the result of it?

|Maybe I should have listed it..

People take drugs to get high in:

a) a responsible way
b)....
c)..


yes?

 

[Tefal]

No you've misunderstood.

I was listing my general perception of the sort of people that would take drugs - and surely it's evident that getting high is the result of it?

|Maybe I should have listed it..

People take drugs to get high in:

a) a responsible way
b)....
c)..


yes?

Still missing the big section which is the same as the Friday night crowd in pubs "irresponsible but not doing because of peer pressure or a need to rebel" that's generally the biggest group

 

[Marky]

You guys....

We can agree to dissagree on some points yeah? We all know how wrriten conversations can be misconstrued eh? It's a form that misses various nuances that if spoken would have us laughing at each other, but when written gets our fangs out

You're right - Just don't like it when people try and belittle someone to get their point across.

I do think the main problem with societies view on drugs as a whole is that it's automatically "young people" that do them, and they're guarenteed to be unsuccessful. It's almost like they're not willing to bother. People with drug problems need help and assistance rather than being thrown into a stereotype and left to be "unsuccessful" as some people put it.