Guild Wars 2

[bhavv]

4 people immediately flamed .....

Anyway my point is that you are evidently ignoring the well-formulated and eloquently expressed concerns of 5+ people now....

You mean 9 random nobodies who dont know how to play the game? Yes you do.

Go onto GW2 guru forum and complain as much about melee there, I'd love to see the responses you get on there.

I also dont see anyone flaming me in the thread you posted, but those forums are closed now so why carry on linking them?

One person said:

In the next beta, try joining in some World vs World battles

To which the above video shows that theres nothing wrong with melee in WvW, just random newbies that havnt yet learned how to melee in GW2.

There are complaints for all of the following points in the official forums you keep linking:

- Particle effects too strong for meleeing (Valid concern, simply add an option to turn down / off the particle effects and its fixed).

- Melee is too weak in PVE (No it isnt)

- Melee is too weak in WvW (No it absolutely isnt, it actually needs nerfing).

If all you're going to do is call everyone with a different view/criticism a "noob"

Anyone complaining that melee is too weak / underpowered / not as effective as ranged = someone who simply hasnt yet learned how to play melee in GW2. That is the very definition of a 'newb / noob'.

I already linked you to a proper discussion on melee in GW2 where players are having no problem with it due to knowing how to play, here it is again:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/34979-melee-underpowered-i-dont-get-it

 

[InKursion]

I don't really think you like listening to or reading other people's input mate, so to be fair I have no idea why you come to a 'discussion' Forum. If all you're going to do is call everyone with a different view/criticism a "noob", we're not going to get very far are we? It's like the last 5 pages are stuck in a constant skipping-groove, looping over and over...

If you want to read people's posts and respond to their feedback on melee, I'm sure they'll be happy to reply to you properly. A warrior PvP movie has no bearing on their discussion, though. None at all. Just pointing that out.

 

[bhavv]

Quotes from here:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/34979-melee-underpowered-i-dont-get-it/

I hope the general complaint of people who sucked at melee continue to whine.

If the general consensus remains that then at release when I roll Warrior I will be an unstoppable juggernaught of death.

Basically everyone's betting on Tyson and I am betting on the guy that beats em.

No honestly melee is fine, if you weren't running a good build you'll get destroyed in GvG. Trust me melee is fine, as long as you have bull's charge and bolas as a warrior nothing solo can kite you it just isn't possible in meta.

I think, on my warrior, all of my kills were done with a melee weapon. I'd root the target with my longbow 5 skills, switch to greatsword, 5 skill (charge), then 2 skill, then 1 skill, chain them down with a utility again, and then 2 skill.

Also got a lot of kills with dual swords.

All you guys who keep going back to bosses that one hit you.

They're big skills have animations. And those big skills have cooldowns. You don't mindlessly run up and attack. You need to know which enemies trample, stun, knockback, slow, and you need to know when they blow it.

I can easily snare a big group of centaurs and backpeddle while meleeing them and take minimal dmg.

If you run ascalon catacombs, which I did. There are multiple bosses that can 1-2shot you. Its knowing when to go in and maximize dmg and when to run out to heal/support/ do minimal ranged dmg.


I played an axe/warhorn with staff necro. Spending the majority of the time with the axe out in melee range. You gotta also understand that some mobs move slower than others.



tl;dr Learn enemy mechanics and skill effects and skill timers.




Another good example of this is the giant Champion Giant guy in the charr zone. People were QQing nonstop about him one shotting everyone.

I think his big aoe hit was around 1000 range or so and on a 10 second cooldown. Wasn't hard to figure out. 10 second window to go in spam melee skills then run out.


The only reason I say people who cry about melee suck at melee is because I was constantly watching players kill themselves by standing in one spot trying to spam their melee skills.

It's true. Axe/axe kills things really fast as a warrior, but you take more damage to pay for that. Learn when to back off and switch to range to cool things off a bit and wait for your heal to recharge, and try to dodge the biggest hits. But it's still worth it.

I love the sword/sword mesmer. It made me switch from elementalist d/d to mesmer.

The only people that have issues with melee are players that don't understand when to fight and when to back out or switch weapons.

Melee is unforgiving in GW2 if you were a solo player this weekened and you played a thief or warrior. You essentially needed to have all distance closing abilities to make most effective use of your character if you weren't with another player who was snaring for you.

Melee is absurdly overpowered, I could 2v1 elementalists, and mesmers easily.

i hear quams like this and I scratch my head. In my opinion all melee needs a damage nerf now.

This is really funny because I spent the most time on my ranger in melee for all formats. I've even played the d/f ele as a close second.

Hints to play melee better
1. Do not engage in a large mob first. You will die.
2. Side stepping, circle strafing, attacking from the back or side are your best friends.
3. Do not use dodge unless you blow your skills. Rangers have a lot of evades and a block on their melee skills, use them before the oh **** dodge button. Also, Warriors have stuns & stances, thieves have blind and stealth, & you can stand still on a guardian and be ok lol. I do not consider eles mesmers and necros to be 100% melee but they do have one option with many defense abilities
4. Big bosses usually summon smaller mobs, take them out to help your allies. Do not engage in attacking the large bosses for long without proper support.
5. Bring a defense/support set & ulitity skill & traits. You are in front of enemies, glass cannons in melee is 100% fail.

Once you get decent at melee, the reward for playing is that much better. You can always take the easy out and just dps as range, but dont you see threads on range being pointless skill spam aka easy mode?

 

[InKursion]

I can say from my limited Beta experience that Thief is MUCH weaker than Warrior. Warrior still destroyed stuff very easy. It's the more fragile 'glass cannon' type melee classes that suffer - those with lighter armor types and a higher focus on burst dps. They get one-shotted in scaled dynamic events, where the mobs beef up according to how many players are in the encounter. It's as simple as that really. You're being quite obtuse to not see that logical argument. Cognitive dissonance 101.

Am I right in thinking you only played Ele? I don't get why you want to argue with everyone all the time! Several different people have registered the same complaint here.

 

[bhavv]

Arenanet already stated long ago that the thief is the hardest class to play in the game. They arent going to make it any easier because 5 nobodies complain on the official forum, when thousands of long term fans want the thief to remain their 'hardcore mode' class.

I will definitely be playing one, just after I have the full game completed on an ele first because magic casters are my favorite class in RPGs.

Historically, Arenanet have only listened to the community when a complaint / suggestion thread reached hundreds of pages on several fan forums. Good luck convincing them that melee is too weak with your single page thread on the official forums! Arenanet developers arent stupid, they are probably sat laughing at complaints that melee is too hard.

FYI Melee was always far far harder than ranged in GW1 PVE as well. Arenanet also never balance the game from a PVE perspective, all balances are done prioritizing PVP first.

Arenanet have also stated thet the difficulty of the game is exactly where they want it, except for a few OP mobs that will be toned down. Other than the particle effects being lowered, the game isnt going to be made any easier in PVE for melee than it currently is. This is simply the difficulty that the fans of the game want, and Arenanet are delivering.

 

[OminousLatinNoun]

Good luck convincing them that melee is too weak with your single page thread on the official forums! Arenanet developers arent stupid, they are probably sat laughing at complaints that melee is too hard.

http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/jon-peters-melee-vs-ranged-combat/

Uh..

EDIT:

I dont care about the official forums. GW2 Guru has always been the primary forum, and will remain the primary forum that the developers listen to. The official forums are just there because ... well honestly because WoW fans wanted official forums instead of just using a fansite.

LOL.

I think the worst thing here is that you actually have no first hand experience playing melee (thief to lvl 6 was it?) or playing WoW, just an internet assembled opinion. It is really obnoxious.

 

[InKursion]

Well here is one of the biggest threads on the official GW2 Forums... just one of many.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/The-State-of-Melee-in-PvE/page/1#post114243

'The State of Melee in PvE'.

Clearly it's more than "6 noobs". 5 people here have already discussed it (ChrisJSY most recently). But okay. Have a nice day

 

[olivier renault]

Melee is not noob friendly. I'm a scrub when it comes to it, and it will require more skills, so I'm all good for that. Not really fancying spamming ranged aoe's, so it's gonna be guardian for me, at least for a while. Good armor, good crowd control, good for team plays, good aoe, and a big hammer. I'll also need to work on my mouse shortcuts, tricky moving around and activating skills on the keyboard.

Thief looks more difficult to play in mobs, but they have some decent ranged attacks.

 

[bhavv]

Well here is one of the biggest threads on the official GW2 Forums... just one of many.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/The-State-of-Melee-in-PvE/page/1#post114243

'The State of Melee in PvE'.

Clearly it's more than "6 noobs". 5 people here have already discussed it (ChrisJSY most recently). But okay. Have a nice day

I dont care about the official forums. GW2 Guru has always been the primary forum, and will remain the primary forum that the developers listen to. The official forums are just there because ... well honestly because WoW fans wanted official forums instead of just using a fansite.

I dont get why its so hard to understand. Melee. Is. Meant. To. Be. Hard!

As oliver put it, it isnt 'noob friendly', and this game wont ever be.

Anyway that thread you linked to there, its not about melee at all and the title is simply misconceived. Its just another thread by someone who played the 'hardest class in the game', I.E. a thief complaining that the 'thief class was too hard to play.

Thats the way its meant to be.

 

[InKursion]

When I played Thief to be honest the out-and-out best way to play was with a Shortbow. The Thief was better in every single way as a Ranged class rather than a melee. With the Shortbow's explosive cluster-shot, I could AoE farm 3-4 mobs at once from range. As melee? Even with years of experience playing rogue-types in other MMO's and years more experience playing professional FPS games - a skill that, oddly, in the above link, the GW2 developer said is necessary - with melee my Thief would struggle in a modest 2v1. A smart player will basically always use the Shortbow. That's the problem I think people were highlighting: it's a 'no brainer', as such.

And the official forums were only opened to appease WoW players? What are you smoking fella?

 

[bhavv]

And the official forums were only opened to appease WoW players? What are you smoking fella?

Well they dont have them because GW2 fans wanted them:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic...or-no/page__hl__official+forum__fromsearch__1

The few reasons for wanting an official forum were only because:

Oh. I was really hoping they would open one. WoW has an official forum, and even SWTOR does (even though they have no idea what they're doing). Many times in the past I skipped through this site because I was looking for the official one.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Regarding melee:

You have failed to understand people's complaints about PVE and you go and link a PVP video.

Can you see the problem?

Stun on adrenaline attack, weakness on auto attack, block/knockdown as skill 2, daze (interupt) as skill 3. Offhand mace has a cone aoe knockdown and shield has a stun and a blocking stance.

Hmm, do stuns/block/knockdown work on champions? Because my adrenaline sword skill (which roots me and the mob) didn't work on champions.
As far as weakness, I don't count that as control, you're using it alongside other people.

It's all fine and dandy vs regular mobs

 

[bhavv]

You have failed to understand people's complaints about PVE and you go and link a PVP video.

Can you see the problem?

But people are also complaining that melee is too weak in WvWvW, I had a reply in Inkursions 'official forum thread' telling me that.

I also quoted plenty of people who have no problems with playing melee in PVE, the only valid complaint has been the particle effects, and I'm sure they will add a setting for that.

The PVP builds also do work in PVE, if you want to run the same max damage warrion build in PVE you can, and it will be just as powerful.

Hmm, do stuns/block/knockdown work on champions? Because my adrenaline sword skill (which roots me and the mob) didn't work on champions.
As far as weakness, I don't count that as control, you're using it alongside other people.

You're not meant to be able to melee everything. Champions / Veterans / Bosses require a lot more strategy and avoiding their attacks. You cant win every battle by meleeing, and thats not going to change.

 

[OminousLatinNoun]

When I played Thief to be honest the out-and-out best way to play was with a Shortbow. The Thief was better in every single way as a Ranged class rather than a melee. With the Shortbow's explosive cluster-shot, I could AoE farm 3-4 mobs at once from range. As melee? Even with years of experience playing rogue-types in other MMO's and years more experience playing professional FPS games - a skill that, oddly, in the above link, the GW2 developer said is necessary - with melee my Thief would struggle in a modest 2v1. A smart player will basically always use the Shortbow. That's the problem I think people were highlighting: it's a 'no brainer', as such.

It's something you're going to find. Especially with how trivially easy kiting melee is.

I suppose we will see what changes they implement for the next BWE, esp /w regards to:

1) defensive tools on more weapons, particularly on lower armor professions.
2) ai needs to favor Melee a bit less than it currently does.

Hmm, do stuns/block/knockdown work on champions? Because my adrenaline sword skill (which roots me and the mob) didn't work on champions.
As far as weakness, I don't count that as control, you're using it alongside other people.

It's all fine and dandy vs regular mobs

Not 100% sure, IIRC they do, though it wouldn't surprise me if they have a diminished effect. I really doubt they will against boss monsters, but just on the varying elite types i'm almost sure they do.

Yea weakness isnt really direct control, though I listed it because it is an automatic contributory effect benefiting melee survival.

 

[Setroc]

My own take on the melee problems are that they are a bit of a non-issue. I played exclusively melee-centric characters during the BWE, mostly on a guardian which got to level 25. Veteran mobs, particularly ones higher level than myself were a challenge from the get-go but I quickly learned to apply my blinds, shields, roots, knockbacks, knockdowns, dodges, and occassional escape abilities if things got especially hairy. Obviously I didn't have all of those abilties available at one time - it depends on builds and equipped weaponary, but I definitely had enough in my arsenal to survive in melee against all regular mobs, including veterans.

This just leaves event bosses as problematic, and in the limited time available I came up against 6 of these. Of those, 2 were impossible to melee as far as I can tell. The solution for me was to equip a ranged weapon, which wasn't an ideal solution by any stretch, as all I could do was auto attack, rezz, and dodge the boss's longer range attacks. But I still enjoyed the fight, and the fact that I was there with around 30 or 40 other people wailing on this hugely impressive mob, easily on a par with most game's final bosses while only at level 15ish more than made up for the fact that the encounter was mechanically simple for me or that I had to move away from my preferred playstyle.

I wouldn't have commented on having to drop melee, or even given it a second thought really if it wasn't for the widespread discussion on forums. Add to this that a grand total of 10-15minutes of many hours of play were "disrupted" in this manner, and you have why I think it was a non-issue. I hope they do make it easier to melee in those fights, and I hope that they tone down particle effects a bit, but if they don't I won't mind, and overall those spontaneous, epic fights even at low levels are something I wish more MMOs offered, with or without these problems.

 

[ChrisJSY]

But people are also complaining that melee is too weak in WvWvW, I had a reply in Inkursions 'official forum thread' telling me that.

I also quoted plenty of people who have no problems with playing melee in PVE, the only valid complaint has been the particle effects, and I'm sure they will add a setting for that.

Okay, I understand that but you can't expect me to be following thread on other forums I don't visit to be discussed here.

Also, will you agree that when people say "I have no problem playing melee in pve" that their experience may differ? If they never saw a champion mob or a special mob at end of a chain event I'd say ok.
But for all we know, all they did was playing for a day on a few regular mobs and that seems to constitute "no problems at all".

Also, we have to understand that from what I've seen there hasn't been any reversal in skill needed between ranged/melee. It's always melee that get the short stick, so they have to go ranged.

I'd love for them to have mobs with would be problematic for ranged, oh wait... all they'd need to do is stand next to the mob .
That's the problem, melee in MMOs was always inherently harder but you could ALWAYS survive if you knew how.

Simply put, there are mobs not even the best player in the world could melee because either, it's unfinished , animations are bugged and don't sync with attacks (this is true already in some cases), scaling isn't correct and beta is beta.

I just want you to understand that I at least, like some others here aren't complaining that it's hard, we're complaining that it is actually impossible in some cases and that's just a really weird concept to follow on such a large scale so early on in the game. I'm not saying it's impossible because most people are bad, I'm saying it is, in some cases, just that. You cannot even go near some "boss type event mobs" because a lot of them have insta cast, no warning pbaoe with bleed and staying but a second longer will kill you. No voice, no text bubble, no animations, no sound, just BLAM!

You're not meant to be able to melee everything. Champions / Veterans / Bosses require a lot more strategy and avoiding their attacks. You cant win every battle by meleeing, and thats not going to change.

Oh, I agree but an overwhelming amount of those are ranged only already and I got to level 19 and played a minor portion of the game.
That's not right at all, why so many?

Edit:

It's not playing if you can just stand there and not really play from ranged, I'm sorry :/
It's a poor gameplay mechanic choice from them, that melee are all over the place dodging and rolling and using certain skills at certain times, being spatially aware, looking out for key moments and the rest can just, well... have one eye on the game, watching something on another screen, whilst eating and playing with one hand.

What were they thinking? In fact I can note multiple instances where I could, as ranged, attack a mob in a dynamic event and go afk and still get gold credit.
I'll make a vid of it next event just to prove a point if I must!

 

[bhavv]

Okay, I understand that but you can't expect me to be following thread on other forums I don't visit to be discussed here.

No, thats what Inkursion was expecting me to do, so I used the 'proper' GW2 fan forum to show him that people are coping fine with melee and finding it more powerful and preferable than ranged in both PVP and PVE.

Also, will you agree that when people say "I have no problem playing melee in pve" that their experience may differ? If they never saw a champion mob or a special mob at end of a chain event I'd say ok.

Their experience didnt differ, they simply know how to use the full potential of their class and when it is a good idea to swap out of melee.

'There is no melee class in GW2'.

You cannot melee everything in the whole game

Learn to play your class and how to use its full range of abilities

And then melee becomes more powerful than ranged

It's not playing if you can just stand there and not really play from ranged, I'm sorry :/
It's a poor gameplay mechanic choice from them, that melee are all over the place dodging and rolling and using certain skills at certain times, being spatially aware, looking out for key moments and the rest can just, well... have one eye on the game, watching something on another screen, whilst eating and playing with one hand.

Ranged is no where near that easy either. Ranged characters have to pay just as much attention and cannot just 'have one eye on the game, watching something on another screen, whilst eating and playing with one hand'.

Such a ridiculous over exaggeration.

Ellys have to dodge and evade veteran mobs too, you cant just stand in one spot and kill them:

 

[No1newts]

Bhavv if gw2 guru is your Mecca of perfection can you not just go hang out there instead of AGAIN dragging the thread off topic by insulting people's ability to play and implying no one has any idea apart from yourself.

There is no need for it and it's pathetic. Thread is completely detailed once again with your efforts.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Their experience didnt differ, they simply know how to use the full potential of their class and when it is a good idea to swap out of melee.

That's complete twollop and you know it, you can't possibly know at all what everyone's experience is from posting. You can only assume.

Ranged is no where near that easy either. Ranged characters have to pay just as much attention and cannot just 'have one eye on the game, watching something on another screen, whilst eating and playing with one hand'.

Such a ridiculous over exaggeration.

.... and you'd know right? If you can't do that as ranged then you obviously must learn to play the class, because that's exactly what you're telling everyone else to do as melee.
Yes, they can, it's so uninvolved being ranged in some of the larger encounters in the beta weekend, note some and beta weekend, not entire game. But if the current trend of the game is indicative of the whole, crikey.
I'm not saying all are.

Edit: So, it's a bit two faced to say melee is harder and then go on to say ranged have to pay just as much attention.

 

[bhavv]

.... and you'd know right? If you can't do that as ranged then you obviously must learn to play the class, because that's exactly what you're telling everyone else to do as melee.

No thats not what I'm telling people to do.

The game isnt even out yet btw, most people have played for just 3 days so any claim that either melee is too hard or ranged is too easy is invalid as no one has enough experience of playing the game yet to conclude that.