President Obama Endorses Gay Marriage

Longbow said:
I've read enough of the Bible to know it's a hateful book. I am certainly not ignorant when it comes to Christianity, so don't pretend the old testament has been superseded.
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Go on then, how much of the Bible have you read?

You certainly seem to be ignorant of aspects of the Bible. I didn't say the Old Testament has been superseded. What I did say was that the laws of the Old Testament had been superseded.

I am typing from my bed on a tablet so E&OE. (I am off work sick today)

The covenant of the Old Testament was between God and the Jews. It was never between God and Christians. The New Covenant of the New Testament is between God and all mankind.

For the end of the law is Christ, unto justice to every one that believeth. (Romans 10:4)

Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. (Galatians 3:23 - 25)
 
DAIR said:
... Are the Gay Christians aware of this?
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Well, I can only speak for the gay Christians I know and they are.

I live in Brighton and am a member of a Catholic parish so I know quite a few gay Christians.

To clarify though - the teaching of Christianity is not that homosexuality is a sin - homosexual actions are. There is a difference.
 
DAIR said:
... Are the Gay Christians aware of this?
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Oh come on lol, I think it would be pretty hard not to know it. I only know of one Christian gay that was a youth worker, nice guy. He now works for Intel (lucky git), although I'm not sure if he still considers himself Christian or not.
 
Relating to topic... About time really, a major democratic western power should be here already

Good stuff
 
spudbynight said:
Well, I can only speak for the gay Christians I know and they are.

I live in Brighton and am a member of a Catholic parish so I know quite a few gay Christians.

To clarify though - the teaching of Christianity is not that homosexuality is a sin - homosexual actions are. There is a difference.
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I would love to know what these differences are?

So are you saying, as a man I could like men (find them attractive) but could never have a physical relationship with them?!
 
DAIR said:
If a dude wants to do another dude in his spare time (and then perhaps marry that dude) then who are we to stop them.
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The problem is people are looking at individual circumstances. "What right do I have to stop X" - "How is going to affect me"

Laws are enacted for the greater good - not for the good of an individual. This is the point people should be debating.
 
DAIR said:
I would love to know what these differences are?
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It is very simple but I will spell it out for you.

There is a difference between having a homosexual orientation (being gay) and engaging in homosexual activities.

Is a gay man who remains celibate any less gay?

I know of plenty of celibate homosexuals.
 
spudbynight said:
The problem is people are looking at individual circumstances. "What right do I have to stop X" - "How is going to affect me"

Laws are enacted for the greater good - not for the good of an individual. This is the point people should be debating.
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Yes, because society will fall apart if we change the law to include more people in marriage...
 
spudbynight said:
It is very simple but I will spell it out for you.

There is a difference between having a homosexual orientation (being gay) and engaging in homosexual activities.

Is a gay man who remains celibate any less gay?

I know of plenty of celibate homosexuals.
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.... So there a various levels of sexuality now? To me if you find the same sex attractive and feel nothing for the opposite sex then you're gay. End
 
Tyron said:
Irrelevant point as gays can't have kids so you have no business bringing it into the discussion, we're talking about gays here.
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I'd argue it's highly relevant as it shows that if we allow the church to dictate policy we wouldn't have the right to abortion or even divorce.

Tyron said:
Yes it does, you have no right to force them to go against their own values (no matter how wrong you feel them to be). If you want to commit to your partner get a civil partnership and stop treading on the rights of the church.
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What about the rights of us to not be discriminated against by a group of people who still believe abortion is evil and condoms are wrong?
You seem to forget that the church isn't the only religious institution around, many other religions have no problem with gay marriage, why should the Christian religion be held higher than them and be allowed to dictate their religious doctrine to non-members? As others have rightly pointed out, marriage is not a religious institution, as I've said, we are NOT ASKING that the church be forced to marry us if they don't want to but we are asking the government to legalise it so we can enjoy the same rights as you and marry in a church/mosque/temple if the priest agrees. There are many priests within the church that do want to marry gay couples, let the priests decide.
Or we could have course just disband the idea of marriage all together and make all have civil partnerships. :rolleyes:

I'm backing out of this thread, everyone should have the right to a happy life without being discriminated against, and I will gladly invite Tyron to my wedding :).
 
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DAIR said:
.... So there a various levels of sexuality now? To me if you find the same sex attractive and feel nothing for the opposite sex then you're gay. End
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What?

He's saying it's okay to be a gay, just not to act on it.

What a ridiculous way of thinking...
 
DAIR said:
.... So there a various levels of sexuality now? To me if you find the same sex attractive and feel nothing for the opposite sex then you're gay. End
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That wasn't what I was saying at all. I was making the point that being gay was different to being gay and engaging in homosexual activities.

I can only speak for the Catholic Church really but it doesn't teach that being Gay is a sin.

It does teach that acting upon those urges and engaging in homosexual activities is sinful.

I agree with that position. I don't hate gay people. I live in my own glass house - I don't think I can really say I am better than anyone else.
 
spudbynight said:
That wasn't what I was saying at all. I was making the point that being gay was different to being gay and engaging in homosexual activities.

I can only speak for the Catholic Church really but it doesn't teach that being Gay is a sin.

It does teach that acting upon those urges and engaging in homosexual activities is sinful.

I agree with that position. I don't hate gay people. I live in my own glass house - I don't think I can really say I am better than anyone else.
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Fair enough.... Seems strange that it would be perfectly fine to have thoughts of doing things with the same sex
 
DAIR said:
Fair enough.... Seems strange that it would be perfectly fine to have thoughts of doing things with the same sex
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Well having those thoughts is wrong as well. That however isn't an anti-gay thing though. As a heterosexual Catholic I am not supposed to have thoughts of doing things with the opposite sex. (Other than my wife)

It doesn't mean I don't have those thoughts - I am human. :)
 
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