Tories whose dads are well off.

mr_stat · 14 May 2012 at 23:59

Tefal said:
So why do you need to be forced to do it?

I don't think there is a fairer option than what we have to be honest (though I see your point). "fairness" means something different to pretty much everyone.

The Halk · 15 May 2012 at 00:01

Telescopi you've kind of proved his point... that people do vote who they're told to. Poor people are told they vote labour and rich people tory..... You're saying it's not right of course - and I very much agree.

Monkeynut · 15 May 2012 at 00:02

Telescopi said:
He has been told to support labour because he's poor, he's been told this by rich media barons and union leaders who are tied in to the Labour power base. Labour has done nothing for the poor but keep them poor.

A very good question is, if Labour are supposed to be helping the poor, why are Labour areas still poor?

My mate's response was "Because if we made them rich, they'd vote Tory!"

Vespasian777 · 15 May 2012 at 00:03

Telescopi said:
It's not slander, it's a fact - I had a very narrow and bitter view of the world which has changed as I've seen more of it. To equate party politics purely with money is insulting to the millions of men and women who happen to disagree with your political opinion.

Obviously my personal politics are Conservative because they have done more for this country in the last 30 years then any other party and if it was left to labour we would be all the poorer for it.

My father is dirt poor and a staunch labour supporter, he hates the Conservatives - yet his politics are 100% conservative and if you listen to him he hates what labour stands for (immigration, benefits, single mothers).

He has been told to support labour because he's poor, he's been told this by rich media barons and union leaders who are tied in to the Labour power base. Labour has done nothing for the poor but keep them poor.

I've never had a very narrow and bitter view of the world. Even at the age of 13. Sorry. To equate party politics to money is not insulting, it's realistic. Political opinions will always vary. It seems either your father, or your perception of him is confused. Sorry. As a tory, I can't believe you want to start talking about media barons.

The Halk · 15 May 2012 at 00:06

Monkeynut said:
A very good question is, if Labour are supposed to be helping the poor, why are Labour areas still poor?

My mate's response was "Because if we made them rich, they'd vote Tory!"

Heh, that is funny. However the reason is that Labour believe in "helping" the poor but in reality they believe in paying people to stay poor. Tories believe in a combination of allowing aspirations to drive people to leave poverty, and also keeping wages low to allow for a pyramid class structure.

Classic liberals believe in clearing the way for people to climb out of poverty, like some Tories do. Mainly because all the decent Tories are classic liberals.

Tefal · 15 May 2012 at 00:06

Vespasian777 said:
I've never had a very narrow and bitter view of the world.

yes you do. every one who says they don't have a narrow view of the world has a narrow view.

hell everyone who says they doesn't has one too.

In fact everyone does otherwise we wouldn't be sat here bitching about 2 bit parties in a tiny nation we'd be discussing wtf we're going to do about the other 7 billion people on the planet.

The Halk · 15 May 2012 at 00:07

Tefal said:
wtf we're going to do about the other 7 billion people on the planet.

Did I mention Liberalism as a solution yet?

Eriedor · 15 May 2012 at 00:08

I'm a swing voter but generally align slightly more with fundamental tory ideologies such as smaller government, more personal responsibility etc

Neither parents are well off.

Vespasian777 · 15 May 2012 at 00:12

Tefal said:
yes you do. every one who says they don't have a narrow view of the world has a narrow view.

hell everyone who says they doesn't has one too.

In fact everyone does otherwise we wouldn't be sat here bitching about 2 bit parties in a tiny nation we'd be discussing wtf we're going to do about the other 7 billion people on the planet.

So to summarise. Everyone has a narrow view of the world? OK mate.

G-MAN2004 · 15 May 2012 at 00:13

I voted for the Tories and my parents are well off. They voted for them too.

Mickie · 15 May 2012 at 00:14

swillsy said:
Its not about helping the rich or poor, its more about realizing you can't invent money to pay for chavs with 10 kids and in general people with jobs are more likely to realize this and agree.

btw I'm Tory and dad's loaded

why has said charv with 10 kids and no job in that situation?

because obviously the system hasnt worked and your bad attitude and lack of understanding doesnt help..

i dont claim to understand why thats happened, but i also dont agree with tory logic..

i dont agree with people like your dad hording his money and not really helping towards the country or stupid opinions like yours about only charv kids bringing down the country when in fact your dad is doing more harm than the charv..

dont get me wrong, i hate charvs.. but they dont run the country, torys do.

The Halk · 15 May 2012 at 00:15

Vespasian777 said:
So to summarise. Everyone has a narrow view of the world? OK mate.

It depends on the context of narrow. We all only see a sliver of things, however relative to each other some people may have a narrow and some a wide view.

Compared to all there is to see, none of us can have more than a narrow view.

Tefal · 15 May 2012 at 00:16

The Halk said:
Did I mention Liberalism as a solution yet?

quite the narrow view point

So how does the centuries long war with more bloodshed than the world has ever seen to impose that system across the globe against the will of many powerful people with armies at their feet fit in with liberalism?

because I doubt that brave new world it would survive it's birth.

The Halk · 15 May 2012 at 00:20

I don't suggest imposing it across the world. However I do suggest that if we live in a liberal society, we embrace free trade properly, and we treat our neighbours with respect and look to build our prosperity by trading with them, that liberalism will inevitably spread across the world, as it always has done.

mr_stat · 15 May 2012 at 00:21

Tefal said:
quite the narrow view point

So how does the centuries long war with more bloodshed than the world has ever seen to impose that system across the globe against the will of many powerful people with armies at their feet fit in with liberalism?

because I doubt that brave new world it would survive it's birth.

Sorry but what?

Of course people have views that aren't narrow. Take the EU crisis, I'm not sure what will happen, I hope the Greeks stay in the EU but I have no really confident opinion on what will happen or what the consequences will be for us. My opinion on what will happen - is quite frankly I have no clear idea at this moment.

Where did you get this crazy idea that everyone was narrow minded from?

Vespasian777 · 15 May 2012 at 00:24

mr_stat said:
Sorry but what?

Of course people have views that aren't narrow. Take the EU crisis, I'm not sure what will happen, I hope the Greeks stay in the EU but I have no really confident opinion on what will happen or what the consequences will be for us. My opinion on what will happen - is quite frankly I have no clear idea at this moment.

Where did you get this crazy idea that everyone was narrow minded from?

It was Tefal.

mr_stat · 15 May 2012 at 00:25

Vespasian777 said:
It was Tefal.

Sorry man.

Vespasian777 · 15 May 2012 at 00:26

mr_stat said:
Sorry man.

I think it was in support of Telesopi. Who may or may not be, but certainly once was, narrow minded.

The Halk · 15 May 2012 at 00:26

mr_stat said:
Sorry but what?

Of course people have views that aren't narrow. Take the EU crisis, I'm not sure what will happen, I hope the Greeks stay in the EU but I have no really confident opinion on what will happen or what the consequences will be for us. My opinion on what will happen - is quite frankly I have no clear idea at this moment.

Where did you get this crazy idea that everyone was narrow minded from?

Err, I got it from the idea that everybody has to be narrow minded, if you put it in that context. I did explain it in the post you quoted though....

Tefal · 15 May 2012 at 00:28

mr_stat said:
Sorry but what?

Of course people have views that aren't narrow. Take the EU crisis, I'm not sure what will happen, I hope the Greeks stay in the EU but I have no really confident opinion on what will happen or what the consequences will be for us. My opinion on what will happen - is quite frankly I have no clear idea at this moment.

Where did you get this crazy idea that everyone was narrow minded from?

not being sure of what will happen in any given moment doesn't = wide world view and also narrow world view =/= narrow minded.

We all have narrow world views because there is so much difference in people separated by hundreds of miles let alone thousands or continents and seas that trying to say your view is wide and encompassing or understanding of a majority of those differences is ludicrous to the point of laughable.