The people -vs- capitalism
- Thread starter stockhausen
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Soldato
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Before I even made that post I knew you would respond, you love me really.
I think as technology improves we will come to a point where many common items will be hard to improve upon, will become more efficient and last longer, and I believe there will not be as many evolutions of certain products, I think general consumerism will slow down, we are already becoming very aware and more cautious of what we buy and how we consume, think what we will be like hundreds of years from now.
At this point in time I agree, and it will continue doing so for a while yet, but I think eventually technology will provide so many of our needs that it will slowly force us to look that those very desires we have for material wealth, it will be a gradual process over many decades/hundreds of years, technology will continue to get cheaper, many items we see as luxuries today will be common place and cost next to nothing, I think technology plays a vital roll in our development as a species.
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yes things we think of as luxury now will be common place, but there will be new luxuries just as expensive to produce.
No we're not.
Got any evidence to back that up as so far we're increasing consumerism and our entire economy is actually based o nit continually increasing exponentially.
Soldato
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Of course I've got no evidence to back it up, it's just a theory of how we and technology may evolve in the future, I think there will come a point when many of our needs are met cheaply though technological means, I really can't see mass consumerism many of which is over indulgence lasting hundreds if not thousands of years into the future, we will change, we are children atm, giving into primitive instincts and desires, many if which drive the economy from both ends, we aren't going to be like this forever are we, and technology will play a key part in that.
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Amazing.
The simplest way to address the conflict between democracy, capitalism and freedom is to enshrine in a constitution that democracy can never take treat individuals or companies differently when it comes to state removal of property. tax and benefits rates should apply to all, without the option to impose greater.taxes on other people or groups to fund wants and desires.
This would have the effect of determining what tax and benefits levels society overall considers fair, and ensure that any new spending commitments desired have to come from the whole of society.
This would have the effect of determining what tax and benefits levels society overall considers fair, and ensure that any new spending commitments desired have to come from the whole of society.
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This and your earlier posts contain a great deal of common sense. However, it is a sad truth that common sense and reason NEVER, EVER trump greed and selfishness.
Capitalism is utterly dependent on greed, waste and never-ending consumerism; you only need to look at the way even left-wing politicians are talking about growth rather than restraint and conservation as the way forward to see that this is the case.
I believe that the only way that people can be persuaded to reconsider their views is as a result of a severe shock to the system. This happened as a result of World War II; it may happen in an equally dramatic way way with the decline of the capitalist West and the rise of China and India. I think that it would be better for us in the Europe if something such as the collapse of the Euro were to trigger a rejection by the masses of the greedy, divisive, exploitative system that we know was American Capitalism - perhaps it will not happen - one can only hope
Churchill famously said that "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.". To translate this to economic systems, it might be said that "Capitalism is the least bad economic system known to man.". This is not the same as saying that it is good or sustainable in the long run or that it can't be improved upon. Those in power and benefiting from capitalism are not going to seek alternatives - it will be down to the majority - the people to force change.
Vive la révolution! - Liberté, égalité, fraternité
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
There can be such a thing as society, not just selfish, greedy individuals seeking only personal advantage at the expense of others!
yeah, I bet you're megga rich man!
There is not enough majoritative anger for there to be a genuine revolution.
The Occupy protests proved this. Even though they were all out camping and railing against The Man, they were nipping off to Starbucks for coffees and posting updates on Twitter through their iPads.
I think until their is a genuine, widespread feeling of hatred towards capitalism there will be no revolution. Revolution is nothing but romance these days, which is why it fails. Technology and its innovators have given the younger generations far too much for them to live without it and to not support the larger firms directly or indirectly.
As a good friend of mine put it after months of work in the States and after bowing out of Occupy LA:
"To all those doing something 'revolutionary' today here in the States: You won't... The only true revolutions from hereon will stem from the Revolution of the Self. For some, this is even more impossible than overthrowing the most corrupt of governments."
The Occupy protests proved this. Even though they were all out camping and railing against The Man, they were nipping off to Starbucks for coffees and posting updates on Twitter through their iPads.
I think until their is a genuine, widespread feeling of hatred towards capitalism there will be no revolution. Revolution is nothing but romance these days, which is why it fails. Technology and its innovators have given the younger generations far too much for them to live without it and to not support the larger firms directly or indirectly.
As a good friend of mine put it after months of work in the States and after bowing out of Occupy LA:
"To all those doing something 'revolutionary' today here in the States: You won't... The only true revolutions from hereon will stem from the Revolution of the Self. For some, this is even more impossible than overthrowing the most corrupt of governments."
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I think that what may be changing this view is what is happening in Greece and France and may happen elsewhere in Europe, people are starting to realise that Capitalism is not the answer, it results in an endless quest for instant gratification without any realistic prospect of satisfaction or relief.
An ever-increasing number of people are likely to realise that they don't in fact need new iRipOffs, a larger 3D TV and a new car every 12 months and that even if they can't resist the lure of this useless junk, unemployment and minimum wages are going to ensure that they can't actually afford them.
When people realise that capitalism, technology and innovation will not change this situation, a realignment of society and attitudes will become more and more attractive.
Bull. The behaviour encouraged can't be called a civil war when you have 99% on one side (with little, if any of the wealth) and 1% on the other side (with pretty much all the wealth). A revolt is exactly the right word. I'm all for it.
Government is of, by and for "the people" - which in this case is the 99% (one person = one vote). The people should not fear their government, the government should fear the people.
Government is of, by and for "the people" - which in this case is the 99% (one person = one vote). The people should not fear their government, the government should fear the people.
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The Century of the Self is a brilliant documentary on this topic. In a nutshell, major corporation worked with psychologists in the mid 20th century to transform the public from citizens with needs into consumers with wants, shifting the basis of their sense of enpowerment from political freedom and equality of opportunity to their ability to consume.
The consequences of this change are obvious today; despite the fact that social mobility is non-existent in this country and the rich have never had it better, people are satisfied because they can get a loan to replace a car that has nothing wrong with it and they can put a Sky subscription on a credit card (which were invented only because easy access to credit is an essential part of a consumer society). It is hard to see what will stop the growth of consumerism.
Sad, but true. The rule of law, police and army exist to defend the interests of the political and economic elite; any meaningful change to the status quo will be preceded by a lot of bloodshed.
It has to be a strong ideological revolution for it to be violent. There is no real ideology at play here, just consumerism and luke warm socialism/nationalism. Nobody really knows what they want, just that something isn't quite right. Certainly nothing worth dying over.
Things will break down and dissolve in a flaccid apathetic way like the Soviet Union did. It wasn't violent it just sort of stopped. Politicians will lose more and more power and credibility and become irrelevant and fade away, to be replaced with something else mildly stronger in ideology like Le Pen.
It really seems like people just can't be bothered.
Things will break down and dissolve in a flaccid apathetic way like the Soviet Union did. It wasn't violent it just sort of stopped. Politicians will lose more and more power and credibility and become irrelevant and fade away, to be replaced with something else mildly stronger in ideology like Le Pen.
It really seems like people just can't be bothered.
I think it is going to swing to the right. The socialist stuff has been tried and failed. Stockhausen will say it was capitalism but really it was socialism. Massive government spending. Hollande is going to fail hard. People will notice and their faith will be shaken and the far right will start to look more like an option. If they are so popular now despite being hugely vilified by the media, government and everyone else, imagine what it would be like once a few people in the media realize there is money to be made pandering to the far right and decide to "turn", suddenly it seems a lot more socially acceptable.
There is actually a scientific tipping point where an idea becomes widely acceptable, and it's quite low.
http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2902&setappvar=page%281%29
There is actually a scientific tipping point where an idea becomes widely acceptable, and it's quite low.
http://news.rpi.edu/update.do?artcenterkey=2902&setappvar=page%281%29
It's easy to be tolerant when your life is soft. When things start getting less soft and comfortable tolerance flies out the widow.
Half of Athens police officers voted for Golden Dawn (Neo-Nazi party)
http://www.timesofisrael.com/about-half-of-greek-police-officers-vote-for-fascist-political-party-in-last-elections/
Half of Athens police officers voted for Golden Dawn (Neo-Nazi party)
http://www.timesofisrael.com/about-half-of-greek-police-officers-vote-for-fascist-political-party-in-last-elections/
