exactly arrogant tories, cameron will hang on until his party stab him in the back, deja vu anyone!
Britain now officially in double-dip recession
- Thread starter scorza
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exactly arrogant tories, cameron will hang on until his party stab him in the back, deja vu anyone!
Soldato
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Don't all parties tend to stick by their decisions despite evidence they should change tack? Like Labour not pulling out of Iraq for example.
Yay! Lets spend money that we don't have like crazy and run this country into the ground, whoppeeeeee! Lets turn Britain into a unemployed destitute wasteland, good times!!
(And you have the nerve to call tories idiots
)it be the same if anyone was in power, they are all muppets and until we have a political revolution we are stuck with a load of posh etonian idiots
So where are you going to plant the magic beans you're planning to borrow money to buy?
Yay! Lets spend money that we don't have like crazy and run this country into the ground, whoppeeeeee! Lets turn Britain into a unemployed destitute wasteland, good times!!
(And you have the nerve to call tories idiots
wow i see you got sucked into the "we have no money" propaganda!
wait we have no money, lets give tax breaks to millionaires, pump money into the ECB, etc. etc.
the country is broke rubbish is utter ****
Ok, stop dancing around and lets see you mini-manifesto. What would you do if you were PM, no holds barred, go crazy if you like and make up any law you want, you rule Britian. What. Would. You. Do?
Go!....
Frankly they're all as bad as each other.
Anyone who thinks we wouldn't be in exactly the same situation if the Tories were in power from 1997 onwards are misguided.
They were calling for more borrowing/spending at the time.
They have just 'lucked out' that they were in opposition when the **** hit the fan so they haven't got the blame.
Anyone who thinks we wouldn't be in exactly the same situation if the Tories were in power from 1997 onwards are misguided.
They were calling for more borrowing/spending at the time.
They have just 'lucked out' that they were in opposition when the **** hit the fan so they haven't got the blame.
exactly I don't see why people get so party political about it, they are all as bad as each other. The only good thing about labour is they have more of a sense of social justice than the tories, who want to see the poor and sick even more downtrodden.
Until we have a system which is truly representative of the people then its always going to be boom/bust. I doubt there is a single MP who knows whats its like to live on very little, most of them have lived on daddies money at oxbridge, and you can't deny the current government nearly all of the front runners are millionaires, not by their own making either!
Caporegime
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Yeah, such propaganda, Labour, lib dem and Tories say we have a huge deficit, so do the banks, the economists, the rest of the world and China, who you know, buy our debt. But you say we really do have money, genius.
People are too daft to notice some basic facts.
recession != austerity didn't work, austerity was not a recession prevention measure, never was, never will be, so arguing or suggesting it didn't work because we are in a recession again is literally ridiculous.
Anyone with half a brain saw a second recession coming the very second we decided the best way out of the first one.... was to borrow our way out of a recession.... we'd largely borrowed ourselves into.
Dropping the deficit means we hit another recession in a much better state than had we run into it head first.
The recession was coming, the global economy still sucks, if we'd spent another 300billion and employed everyone in the NHS(something that would destroy this country for the next 50 years btw), then Greece would still be failing, Germany would still be having their economy hurt by Greece, Spain, everyone else, the EU would be in the same state, and the world economy would be in the same state, with the same lack of growth.
Artificial growth, that is all "non" austerity would buy us.
Borrow 50billion today, put 2 million people in jobs, get out of the recession... and all it would mean is in 10 years, we've borred 500billion, and owe 700billion, which we can't pay back, and in another 10 years we've borrowed 1.2trillion extra(I'm talking about ABOVE what we're doing now) and we'd owe an extra 2trillion back, that we can't afford.
At some stage along that line, someone simply stops buying our debt, the pound loses its value, we can't borrow that money and the "fake" growth we made that kept us TECHNICALLY speaking out of recession(while actually being in a real recession with real growth stalled the entire time).
What you want is someone to tell you everything is fine, even if its getting worse, so you feel better because you can PRETEND nothing is wrong.
What you get with Tories over labour is, the truth, the country sucks, the economy sucks, we have to cut spending to weather the recession/economy as well as possible, and when we hit a recession they don't hide it by increasing spending by 50billion and employing enough people to not be in a recession, that is what Labour did, and have been doing for a long time, and its what they would do again, and its what got us in trouble to start with.
mmm, no - we certainly wouldn't have escaped the economic downturn, but our deficit would not have been the same, it would have been lower. I'd say you are the one who's misguided on party politics
That's a mighty big chip there old bean, can I suggest some Daddies sauce to go with it?
Pot & Kettle come to mind...
Err...so why did DC and GO say the cuts would promote growth?
Absolutely, everyone with half a brain did see this coming....that's why GO predicted 2%+ growth by now well on the way to 3%...
You've been listening to Dolph too much.
Not sure you've got the grasp of what investment is....a person/company/country borrows money to invest to improve the base operation so that in the future they make more money and pay back the loan + interest and still make a profit...
HAHAHA, that's so funny! And if you truly believe that then....well, I have some fantastic Snake Oil here I can sell you for £100 a bottle, cures all known ill's, I promise
I don't actually remember the Tories objecting to the Labour spending plans when they were in opposition....
(Btw I'm not a Labour voter)
Man of Honour
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I think an income tax cut would be a more productive step. A cut in VAT to 17.5% wouldn't encourage people to really go out and spend.
I was thinking more along the lines of cutting it back to 15%, as it was a year or two ago.
I'm fully aware of the principles that the main parties traditionally value.
The point was that before the global financial crisis the Conservatives, while in opposition, were not only on-board with Labour's spending plans, but were deriding the government for not investing more.
In fact, it was only Vince Cable who predicted what was coming and suggested borrowing should be curbed.
The two main parties might have a different approach to recovering from a financial meltdown, but during the boom-times of the late 90s /early 2000s I think the Conservatives would have been borrowing and spending just as much; so the deficit wouldn't have been any lower.
I'm not defending Labour, I'm saying that I don't think we would have been in a better situation had the Tories been in power.
Man of Honour
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Would a 15% rate encourage people to spend ? I'm not so sure but I'm no expert.
The temporary cut to 15% is widely believed to have lead to increased consumption a couple of years ago. Likewise the rise to 20% is widely believed to have depressed consumption. I'm not sure why people are so sceptical that higher prices == lower demand and vice versa.
Associate
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Find it interesting that people think we could simply spend our way out of this recession, despite the fact that most of our key trading partners are having to cut back because they spend ridiculously more than they should have done in the good times.
We would been in a double-dip recession regardless of who was in power, the difference is under Labour we would probably end up in similar trouble that most of Europe is facing(i.e unable to pay off our loans).
At the end of the day, most of the Western world lived far beyond its means and now we are going to have several years of hard times to pay off our overspending.
We would been in a double-dip recession regardless of who was in power, the difference is under Labour we would probably end up in similar trouble that most of Europe is facing(i.e unable to pay off our loans).
At the end of the day, most of the Western world lived far beyond its means and now we are going to have several years of hard times to pay off our overspending.
You find it interesting that people would prefer to use economic theory to get us out of a economic crisis than relying to hysterical, meaningless slogans such as "living within our means"? Did you know that according to the IMF, the UK deficit would be 5.2% right now under Alistair Darling's spending plans from 2010. The actual deficit right now is 5.0%, so for all Osborne's hard man rhetoric all we have to show for two years of diminishing pay and rampant unemployment is a deficit reduction of 0.2%.
Good article on what should be done from a respected economist: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/economics/2012/05/recession-deniers-proved-wrong