UK Uncut - what a brave bunch of heroes.

oh dear, here comes the 'tax avoision' **** again. can I make up a new word too? how about idiotard, referring to someone who makes up new positions about taxation that have no bearing on reality...

Good ol' Dolph. If he's not acting as a mouthpiece for the rich and privileged in regurgitating libertarian dogma, then he's instead casually throwing around insults.

Tax Evasion = You're doing something wrong.
Tax Avoidance = The Government is doing something wrong.

You can't really merge the two terms.

A couple of easy lines, but not truly appropriate to the situation. Anyway, we've discussed this in a recent thread already. Dig it up if you like save derailing this one any further.
 
I've wholeheartedly supported UK Uncut up until now, but it's not right protesting outside Nick Clegg's house, potentially upsetting is wife/kids/neighbours. I think Clegg ought to be applauded for living in his family home as opposed to some ivory tower behind the Downing Street security barriers.
 
I think Clegg ought to be applauded for living in his family home as opposed to some ivory tower behind the Downing Street security barriers.

As a father could you blame him if he decided to change that policy in light of this?
 
As a father could you blame him if he decided to change that policy in light of this?

Would it be worth it for 2 more years? I know the next election is in 2015, but they've already leaked the Lib Dem intention to split the coalition in 2014.

Yes, that's right. Despite the much vaunted "coming together in the national interest" they've decided to part ways a year early so they may concentrate on saving their own political careers... :rolleyes:
 
yeah I mean two more years of your kids in danger is nothing to a parent....

To be fair, what are some middle-class activists going to do? Pelt them with hummus?

I think you may be overplaying the danger here my good man. It's not like he casually invaded a Middle Eastern country or anything. :p

Now if it was three then my god there would be an issue.

:D
 
What exactly do they represent?
They say there is alternative to the cuts, but looking through their website, they seem to go places and sit down.
Do they really want vodaphone and chums to fund the Uk govt instead of the Uk govt having cuts?
 
What exactly do they represent?
They say there is alternative to the cuts, but looking through their website, they seem to go places and sit down.
Do they really want vodaphone and chums to fund the Uk govt instead of the Uk govt having cuts?

According to their website their alternative is to basically eliminate all tax avoidance overnight and to charge the banks for insurance which they claim would be worth £100bn a year.

The first bit is unlikely to ever work, the second is just silly because the banks would just reclaim that £100bn through higher customer charges which would in turn make us all that little bit poorer negating any benefit to not cutting.
 
According to their website their alternative is to basically eliminate all tax avoidance overnight and to charge the banks for insurance which they claim would be worth £100bn a year.

The first bit is unlikely to ever work, the second is just silly because the banks would just reclaim that £100bn through higher customer charges which would in turn make us all that little bit poorer negating any benefit to not cutting.

Their sums are just ****ing stupid. The banks don't have GBP100b to take. If they took it from the banks the banks would either all go under - bye bye economy and bye bye trade - or they'd need another bailout. The money our banks made is to a large extent made outside of the UK, or made inside the UK on foreign funds - it's virtually all positive towards the trade deficit.

If they increased taxes on the banks then they'd simply HQ elsewhere. It's ****ing stupid thinking that they can extort the money from the banks.

UK Uncut have the critical thinking capacity of a 7 year old. Their arguments are effortlessly disproved - but they don't care. They just want to go to a music festival atmosphere and be new age *****.
 
Here's a rather accurate review of UK Uncut by a blogger...

UK Uncut - a group that seems determined to make student politics seem credible and forward thinking by comparison - I give you the concept of a bail-in. What is a bail-in, you might ask. You really don't want to know, I'd reply. But I'll tell you anyway:

"Our next wave of actions will be even more exciting. A Bail-In means marching into our broken banks and building something better. Make your silent, sterile Barclays branch sing, dance, explode with life! Reclaim the space and make it into something thrilling, something that shows how much creativity the anti-cuts movement has. Let’s smash austerity with a smile on our faces. We are Cameron’s nightmare, a real big society with the vision and bravery to transform the institutions at the rotten heart of our system."

Right. So... a broken bank is what, then? One with a leaky roof or a run-down cash machine outside? Or is it one that we had to bail out? Because if it is, then you shouldn't be heading to Barclays because, as Jackart points out, they found other ways to keep going. I guess we're back at the idiot's equation when it comes to banks. The (il)logic runs something like this: I don't like bankers therefore bankers must be bad and therefore banks must be broken. It is audacious in its breathtaking stupidity.

This idea of making banks thrilling through singing and dancing also seems curious. To me, banks aren't cold and sterile - they are trying to project an image of being professional places where you can do business and where you can safely store your money. There is a reason why they don't normally have singing and dancing, my people. It's because it would be a ****ing stupid idea for a bank.

And while we're on the subject, the talk of "reclaiming" a bank is also pretty stupid - at least until you realise that what we're talking about here is people invading the private property of others. Then it becomes downright malign. Think about how you would feel, Mr and Mrs UK Uncut, if I came round to your house and invaded your front room because I happen to disagree with you on this one. Wouldn't be fun, would it? But that's exactly what your bail-ins are about.

Oh, and by the way, you are not Cameron's nightmare. You are a minor irritant - like a mosquito bite on the butt cheek. If Cameron ignores you for long enough, you'll vanish. You're not going to change any institutions, rotten or otherwise, with your bland, anodyne and pathetic protests. All that will happen is that you'll look like ****s on Saturdays until you find something better to do at the weekend.

Which is rather the point. Far be it from me to champion Cameron's Big Society, but I dare say his response to this sort of guff would be "if you genuinely want to make a difference, stop interrupting businesses and do some constructive, voluntary work in your spare time". But that would be too difficult, wouldn't it? To do something that might actually be constructive. But that wouldn't get the media's attention.

Anyway targeting businesses like Barclays - which has done nothing more than trying to avoid (not evade) tax - is targeting the wrong people. Any tax bill has to be agreed with HMRC - if you don't agree with that tax bill, go bellyache to them. Furthermore, by damaging the trade of banks such as Barclays through these tedious sit-ins, you will potentially damage their future revenue and therefore decrease the amounts they will have to pay in tax in future. Which is the final irony - with behaviour like this, UK Uncut may actually be making future cuts more likely.

Absolute ******s.
 
Corporate 'tax avoision' is equally anti-social in its behaviour. They are equivalents.

The only thing I disagree with there is your idea that a free-market favours SME's. It's not possible.

For what it's worth, I don't particularly approve of what UK Uncut did. I'm just parodying the simplistic idea many have expressed on the 'tax avoision' debate, that as long as it's legal, it's absolutely fine (and probably none of your business).

I just hope those who condemn UK Uncut's activities on moral grounds remember to check themselves for hypocrisy at the door.

You may want to read the following....

http://logicalconclusion.net/2011/05/ukuncut-stop-scaremongering-and-help-us-help-people/

So, whilst it doesn't negate that tax avoidance and evasion are a problem, it shows you how much UK Uncut over exaggerate the figures. Their idea that solving the problem over night would fill the deficit gap is pure rubbish.
 
Nothing Has Ever Been Accomplished by a Reasonable Person

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - GBS, Man and Superman

At least the UK Uncut people are trying to make a difference rather than being led like sheep to disaster by a bunch of bankers, tax-dodgers and corrupt politicians.

Good luck to them I say :)
 
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - GBS, Man and Superman

At least the UK Uncut people are trying to make a difference rather than being led like sheep to disaster by a bunch of bankers, tax-dodgers and corrupt politicians.

Good luck to them I say :)

I should have known you'd throw your crayon in with that lot - although being really honest.. you're head and shoulders above their thinking.
 
It was hardly a riot like its been spun by the government propaganda via the BBC it was a load of disabled people in wheelchairs chaining themselves together, hardly anarchists!

The level and amount of protest in the two years of these idiots in government just says it all, and today we have another U turn do Cameron et al engage brain before making policy, clearly not !
 
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - GBS, Man and Superman

At least the UK Uncut people are trying to make a difference rather than being led like sheep to disaster by a bunch of bankers, tax-dodgers and corrupt politicians.

Good luck to them I say :)


+1

While the rest of the British people bend over and take it from their Etonian Oxbridge masters
 
You may want to read the following....

http://logicalconclusion.net/2011/05/ukuncut-stop-scaremongering-and-help-us-help-people/

So, whilst it doesn't negate that tax avoidance and evasion are a problem, it shows you how much UK Uncut over exaggerate the figures. Their idea that solving the problem over night would fill the deficit gap is pure rubbish.

Likewise, the HMRC's estimates are very likely too low. Afterall they readily admit the limitations of their 'bottom-up' calculations to arrive at the tax gap.

I suspect the truth lies somewhere inbetween both estimates.

Of course the important thing to remember here is the actual tax gap figure is not the point. The point is that precious little is being done by the government to close this tax gap, whatever the figure may be. On that count, UK Uncut are right to bring pressure to the government and companies (and enjoy popular support in doing so).
 
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