Defining the 48 hour work law (opt out)

FabienO

FabienO

FabienO

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http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/employees/workinghoursandtimeoff/dg_10029426

We are being asked to sign an opt-out at work and I would like some clarification on how this works. Even if it is GD clarification :P.

1) My bosses believe the law is there because an employee isn't allowed to work over 48 hours per week (we all do 50+ per week atm). So signing out allows us to continue our working hours without it being illegal - work is voluntary.

2) I was under the impression the law is there to prevent them asking us to work more after the 48 hour period.

Which is true?


Summary:

A) Is working more than 48 hours per week over a year illegal for the company (Even if not asked to do so (voluntary))
B) Is it illegal to ask an employee who hasn't opted out to work more than 48 hours per week, over a year.

---

In before the ring CAB etc.
In before the post on GD about it


Cheers!
 
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amigafan2003 said:
The 48 hour working time directive is averaged out over a 13 week period, so you could do 55 hrs one week and 39 the next and so on and still be ok.

They can ask you to opt out but if you decline you should suffer no detriment.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employment/employees/workinghoursandtimeoff/dg_10029426

Not so hard to Google was it?
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Ok, perhaps I wasn't clear.

I work 50+ hours every week. Have done so for over a year.

I will also clarify, they don't ask us to work more.
 
And breaks and holidays above statutory are excluded as well.

It's as good as useless the WTD. I worked out that for our company, under the average and taking account of paid breaks etc, people can work 55 hours per week without needing to sign the opt out. It's a 17 week average btw.
 
Last edited:
As above.
It's an average over 17weeks.
Perfectly legal to opt out and work more.
However you don't have to opt out.
even if you do opt out it doesn't mean you have to work more, you can revoke it when you want.

If like you say, you regularly work more you need to opt out.

I can't see any reason why anyone would not opt out?
 
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FabienO said:
Ok, perhaps I wasn't clear.

I work 50+ hours every week. Have done so for over a year.

I will also clarify, they don't ask us to work more.
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Simple then. If you are choosing to work longer to "finish off work" then this is excluded from the average so your company probably don;t need to get you to sign a waiver.

They are covering their backs, just in case.

If you don't want to sign it then you don;t have to. Simples.
 
Glaucus said:
I can't see any reason why anyone would not opt out?
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Depends on whether you get paid for those extra hours.

Most managers at our place have opted out. However, they might start off doing 50 to 55 hours which they are happy with but what happens when it becomes 60 to 70 on a regular basis for no extra money? Choice then is not to opt out or chaneg jobs.,
 
Greebo said:
Simple then. If you are choosing to work longer to "finish off work" then this is excluded from the average so your company probably don;t need to get you to sign a waiver.

They are covering their backs, just in case.

If you don't want to sign it then you don;t have to. Simples.
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Thank you, that's pretty much what I wanted to know and had believed. My company is under the impression having their employees work over 48 hours is illegal.

I am informing them it isn't if it's not being asked of them.
 
FabienO said:
Thank you, that's pretty much what I wanted to know and had believed. My company is under the impression having their employees work over 48 hours is illegal.
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They are right, unless you opt out of the working time directive :-)

And it's the employers responsibility to ensure the WTD is adhered to, not the employees, so they are just covering thier own back.
 
amigafan2003 said:
They are right, unless you opt out of the working time directive :-)

And it's the employers responsibility to ensure the WTD is adhered to, not the employees, so they are just covering thier own back.
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Even if the employee is not being asked to work over 48? It is voluntary.
 
I was under the impression that the UK as a country opted out of it.

But I have seen these forms before, at rather large companies with big legal budgets so I'd suspect your boss is behaving legally.
 
Glaucus said:
We didn't opt out as a country. We just insured people could opt out by signing these forms. It also doesn't apply to everyone.
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Correct - you can't opt out of it in other EU member countries.

Providing an opt out in the UK was a mistake IMO.
 
If you haven't opted out it's illegal to work over 48 hours (on average).
I believe there is a period of notice if you opt back in to the working time limit.
Voluntary paid still counts, only voluntary unpaid doesn't.
 
As part of our contracts there was a clause that said we opted out.

Which is fair enough really as over a decade of working doing less than 48hrs was the exception that made the rule.

It would be nice to work just 40hrs and be paid more.... one day! Or at least be paid overtime... ah well, that's what you get for being in management!
 
Can't believe you guys are happy to work 10 hours a day + commuting times :| Do you not want to, yano, do other stuff?
 
rogan said:
Can't believe you guys are happy to work 10 hours a day + commuting times :| Do you not want to, yano, do other stuff?
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Part of the business some people, myself included, work in. 50 is near enough the minimum anyone does here. Some guys are in excess of 70 every week for months. It's better than it used to be. Before we switched to new investors, there have been people 'let go' for reasons believed to be only doing 40 hours :P

I don't think it would happen with our current bosses though.
 
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