Is it just me...

Skilid

Skilid

Skilid

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Or are 'hot hatchbacks' getting a little bit too powerful?

A few years ago a hatch was considered 'hot' if it had ~200bhp (Golf GTi, Civic Type R, Focus ST etc). However the new Astra VXR is going to have 276bhp and the new Golf GTi will have 260bhp. I personally think this is too much.

Rather than spending time squeezing more power out of the cars I would rather them spend more time on making the cars lighter and handle better, making them more fun to drive. With all this power they will have to be full of technology and electrical gubbins to be able to keep them from killing you in the corners which, I think, is just expensive and unnecessary.

Some of the best hot hatches didn't have that much power and were classed as brilliant.

What is your opinion?
 
They used to say 200bhp was too much for a FWD car:p

Personally I agree.Everybody likes different things from a car, but a sorted chassis is a sorted chassis, whether it has 120bhp or 320bhp, its down to how its implemented. I personally prefer a lower power car, that i can drive near the limit without computer tricker taking the experience away from the driver.
 
dsb said:
Its all about 0-60 and who has the most BHP, getting round corners doesnt matter to most.
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I hate this mentality. Just accelerating to 60 isn't what I would class as 'fun'. It's all about how a car communicates to you and how it makes you feel.

With most cars now you are so disconnected from the actual driving experience because of all the electrics. They just aren't like they used to be.

Tinders said:
They used to say 200bhp was too much for a FWD car:p

Personally I agree.Everybody likes different things from a car, but a sorted chassis is a sorted chassis, whether it has 120bhp or 320bhp, its down to how its implemented. I personally prefer a lower power car, that i can drive near the limit without computer tricker taking the experience away from the driver.
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I completely agree.
 
I have a mate like this, he thinks a car isnt interesting unless its as fast as possible

Personally I wouldnt go much over 200BHP for a road car, I just dont see the point in it
 
Gti doesn't mean what it used to mean. They're not aimed at people interested in driving now. I think that applies to most cars really
 
180BHP was too much for the ibiza I had, too much torque early on in the rev range (peak at 1500RPM) caused a lot of wheelspin or ESP cutting in which made the experinece annoying.

Like said above, it all depends on implementation. People who tune FWD is just not set up for big power, not without expensive suspension and differentials, which then argues the point of why not just go RWD is the first place as it is far better suited.

The answer to this is:

a) cost, FWD is cheap

b) people are scared of RWD, this is so true, just think back to winter time when it snowed and all of the people who are terrifyed of going outside in the snow.
 
Good handling and fun to drive doesn't translate to paper statistics and paper statistics are what sell cars to most people.

You need only look at the hot hatch threads on here to see the number of supposed petrolheads who will argue until they are blue in the face that a hot hatch is almost solely defined by its 0-60 time or power output to realise why manufacturers are pursuing the route of bigger numbers and lower 0-60 times.
 
Dogbreath said:
Why only hatchbacks, and what is "too powerful"? Is it ok for saloons like BMW's M series and Audi's RS range to have double the power of a hatch?
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BMW M and Audi RS are rear wheel drive and four wheel drive respectively, which can handle the power much better. Journalists complain about how those don't offer a huge amount of feedback and are 'numb' to drive too. Especially Audis.

EDIT: Compared to similar, older cars.
 
In the context of the OP you have to look at the power to weight ratio (and secondarily how well it puts that power down) a lot of modern hatches are far heavier (due to a mixture of things including modern safety equipment/features) than their older equivalents and while they may have a much higher BHP on paper in terms of actual performance they may not be much different.
 
Rroff said:
In the context of the OP you have to look at the power to weight ratio (and secondarily how well it puts that power down) a lot of modern hatches are far heavier (due to a mixture of things including modern safety equipment/features) than their older equivalents and while they may have a much higher BHP on paper in terms of actual performance they may not be much different.
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This is also what I am complaining about. None of them really seem to get any lighter. I think this is a major issue with modern cars. I like the way Mazda are going, trying to make their cars lighter rather than heavier, setting themselves big goals. The next MX-5 for instance should be very interesting.
 
Yeah a lot of them are quite heavy for a hot hatch but some of that is kinda unavoidable with current safety requirements (unless they make them a lot more expensive). I do find that most modern hatches have lost their appeal for me - the recent golfs have terrible terrible handling if you disable stability control and very mundane to drive (actually resists any kind of agressive driving even in a track context) with it on.
 
Surely every sort of car should be available for people to choose what they want. You can almost certainly get a car that suits your lifestyle but there are people out there that have different ideas about cars and what they are used for or needed.

I'm convinced that a significant number of accidents are caused by frustration on the road and frustration is caused by inconsiderate driving. The classic go anywhere at 40mph type is one example. 40 on any road even with a 30 mph limit is not uncommon and in my mind dangerous. It isn't even economical, most modern cars are most efficient at 56mph where the EU fuel consumption tests are run.

Andi.
 
EliotG said:
Or are 'hot hatchbacks' getting a little bit too powerful?
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I do slightly agree with this statement. The general theme of hot hatches is they get heavier and therefore require more BHP to be quicker than their predecessors.

I must admit I would prefer a light nimble car, with enough power to make it exciting.

But I think the way the new hot hatches are being built is down to EU laws etc. Emissions, pedestrian safety, driver/passenger safety all increase the weight, more and more modern options like air con, electric adjustable seats, sat nav etc are a must for the modern day hot hatch to compete in the market and attract the buyers. All this = extra weight.

On the other hand I have heard that some cars are transformed with more power. Take the Focus ST for example, they come standard with 225bhp. A Ford approved Mountune re-map is said to transform the power delivery making the car much smoother to drive, and the power being a lot more progressive and manageable than stock.

The "Hot Hatch" has definately evolved from the old days of the Mk2 gti and the likes of the 106 gti, where they weighed next to nothing, had barely any power to modern day standards, yet are definitely a lot more fun! The modern "Hot Hatch" seems to be more "refined" and "sophisticated" IMO.
 
rossk26 said:
I do slightly agree with this statement. The general theme of hot hatches is they get heavier and therefore require more BHP to be quicker than their predecessors.

I must admit I would prefer a light nimble car, with enough power to make it exciting.

But I think the way the new hot hatches are being built is down to EU laws etc. Emissions, pedestrian safety, driver/passenger safety all increase the weight, more and more modern options like air con, electric adjustable seats, sat nav etc are a must for the modern day hot hatch to compete in the market and attract the buyers. All this = extra weight.

On the other hand I have heard that some cars are transformed with more power. Take the Focus ST for example, they come standard with 225bhp. A Ford approved Mountune re-map is said to transform the power delivery making the car much smoother to drive, and the power being a lot more progressive and manageable than stock.

The "Hot Hatch" has definately evolved from the old days of the Mk2 gti and the likes of the 106 gti, where they weighed next to nothing, had barely any power to modern day standards, yet are definitely a lot more fun! The modern "Hot Hatch" seems to be more "refined" and "sophisticated" IMO.
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The EU does have a lot do with this :(

Andi.
 
andicole0 said:
It isn't even economical, most modern cars are most efficient at 56mph where the EU fuel consumption tests are run.

Andi.
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As far as I can see, there isn't a single point on the current tests where a car is sat at 56mph, merely a couple of points where it passes through 56mph whilst accelerating and decelerating to and from 75mph.
 
Kenai said:
As far as I can see, there isn't a single point on the current tests where a car is sat at 56mph, merely a couple of points where it passes through 56mph whilst accelerating and decelerating to and from 75mph.
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They must have changed the tests then, anyway there's pretty much nothing on the road that will run efficiently on the road at 40mph. Certainly anything fairly modern with lots of gears is going to struggle to run in top gear at that speed. My cars don't.

Andi.
 
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