Scientology - Who's really mad

[Castiel]

Do you realise that if you were born in another half of the world, you'd probably be Muslim or Hindu? How do you justify 'being a Christian' with that knowledge?

Probably the same way you justify your beliefs.

 

[Evoss]

All are crazy, baffles me why people are told how to live their lives either by a book or random gibberish that has been made up.

 

[spudbynight]

FINALLY someone gets it.

There is no difference between the far-fetched deities of Scientology and any other theistic religion. Loads of people I know laugh at Scientology but don't see the similarities between it and any other religions, even when pointed out.

The thing is it is the differences that are important....

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Probably the same way you justify your beliefs.

I doubt that

 

[spudbynight]

L Ron Hubbard getting carried away.....you'll find that the Church of Scientology distance themselves from the story of a Galactic Overlord who killed billions in an income tax scam in Earths volcanos releasing their Thetan Souls which are now trapped in some kind of energy ribbon in Earths atmosphere and have now forgotten their origins, have all gone crazy and are responsible for the evil people do......

They even go so far as to litigate against those that spread the story and when they do rarely acknowledge it is compared to allegory rather than truth....

It just goes to illustrate how inconsistant the Church of Scientolgy is in its beliefs and how they present them.

I got this....

 

[Castiel]

I doubt that

Leap of faith? Or do you have evidence on how Bunnykillbot justifies his beliefs.....

Do you think that you would still be an atheist if you were born into a Saudi family in Mecca?

 

[spudbynight]

Knock yourself out... http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm/

That link is just so full of FAIL it isn't funny. I lost any real interest when it tried to argue that the troubles in Northern Ireland had ANYTHING to do with religion.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Do you think that you would still be an atheist if you were born into a Saudi family in Mecca?

Tricky one, that... Probably yes, assuming I could be a 'closet' atheist (as that would be important to preserving my well being from religious nutters).

I was brought up Catholic (parents, school) and remained one until I grew up and established the ability to think rationally and sensibly about things.

I also used to believe in Santa Claus.

And the Easter Bunny.

But as I said, I grew up

 

[RDM]

That link is just so full of FAIL it isn't funny. I lost any real interest when it tried to argue that the troubles in Northern Ireland had ANYTHING to do with religion.

Shame you didn't read a bit closer. It is pretty much undeniable that faith does play a part in the troubles in Northern Ireland, though it certainly wasn't the cause. My own paternal grandparents instructed my mother to make sure that, when we grew up we didn't marry "one of them". Them in his case being a Catholic however the couldnt bring themselves to say the word.

 

[Castiel]

Tricky one, that... Probably yes, assuming I could be a 'closet' atheist (as that would be important to preserving my well being from religious nutters).

I was brought up Catholic (parents, school) and remained one until I grew up and established the ability to think rationally and sensibly about things.

I also used to believe in Santa Claus.

And the Easter Bunny.

But as I said, I grew up

However, you were exposed to opposing and multiple philosophies, religions, and the freedom of expression and religion that allowed you to choose the philosophical position that best suited your worldview.....

These criteria were also available to Bunnykillbot, and as such just because he came to a different position than you on his relative worldview doesn't mean that the process in which he came to that decision is any different.

If you were both raised in an environment such as Saudi Arabia, the likelihood is that both of you, with the limited and restricted exposure to other philosophies and religions and positions would be sharing a call to prayer several times a day.

So logically if you could become an atheist in such an environment, Bunnykillbot could also become a Christian.

The ability to think rationally and sensibly doesn't mean you automatically become an atheist...in fact if we accept the rationale you propose (for arguments sake, not that I do or dont) then the only rational and sensible position to take is one of agnosticism, therefore a rational position would preclude the dismissal of either of the other positions without falsifiable evidence.

Xordium summed it up very well earlier in the thread and I am sure he will not mind my quoting him:

I think atheists should think about how they can possibly reject something completely that they could never possibly test for and therefore take a long look at themselves and see the hypocrisy in their own leap of faith. Furthermore, they should know that by assuming that there is anything other than their own conscious thoughts they are taking a leap of faith and displaying a level of belief above and beyond that which they castigate religious people for.

I think they should then just join us agnostics, sit and the fence and laugh at all the crazies trying to argue for an empirical answer to something that falls outside of postivistic assessment..

 

[Defiant306]

Agnostic myself, I used to be an Atheist but when I considered it all I found that it was rather arrogant of me to rule it out completely.

Our knowledge of Science is ever expanding and we are learning still about our Universe, so in the grand scheme of things I think an open mind is best to this subject.

Same with others beliefs, people can go ahead and believe what ever but I might not agree with you but I stand by your rights to believe what you want to.

I do draw the line at the state being influenced by religion or beliefs I think its wrong in a country that holds many various beliefs. Mind you I think politics is fundamentally broken anyway, but that's another story.

Live and let live is something I do think we should adhere to, the likes of Hitler for an example breaks this neutral view so there for the balance had to be restored.

 

[Castiel]

That link is just so full of FAIL it isn't funny. I lost any real interest when it tried to argue that the troubles in Northern Ireland had ANYTHING to do with religion.

Relogioustolerance.org is generally objective in its content.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

However, you were exposed to opposing and multiple philosophies, religions, and the freedom of expression and religion that allowed you to choose the philosophical position that best suited your worldview.....

Sure.

These criteria were also available to Bunnykillbot, and as such just because he came to a different position than you on his relative worldview doesn't mean that the process in which he came to that decision is any different.

One is a more rational and sensible conclusion (mine), the other... isn't. It's a fantasy.

If you were both raised in an environment such as Saudi Arabia, the likelihood is that both of you, with the limited and restricted exposure to other philosophies and religions and positions would be sharing a call to prayer several times a day.

Maybe, yes. But this was my point to begin with. I see what you're saying, though: I should clarify that I have accepted the fact Bunny is susceptible to fantasy and perhaps suggestible to higher power/after life stuff - I was saying that on that premise, he'd just attach himself to whatever religion was prevalent in whatever country.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

Agnostic myself, I used to be an Atheist but when I considered it all I found that it was rather arrogant of me to rule it out completely.

I'm an atheist in the broad and popular sense, which is 'atheist agnostic' (which is not to say there are none, just to reject belief in them). We're alike.

 

[Alz_D]

I also used to believe in Santa Claus.

And the Easter Bunny.

But as I said, I grew up

But what if nobody had ever told you that the above mentioned were not real? What if every one you had ever met had continually reassured you that they were infact very real and some how directly linked to the smooth operation of the world as you know it. You only disbelieve it because at some point in your life your peers burst the bubble.

Religion can be very much like that in some places.

no offence johnny, but you clearly have no understanding of how the cult of Scientology works, or how it controls its 'subjects'

Surely many religious factions control their audience? Whether it be using fear, brain washing or something else??

People find comfort in religion and for all of the bad it does in the world it also offers a lot of people a reassurance that this one life isn't "it". This world can be a horrible place sometimes and if some people are happier believing that there is a higher purpose then great - let them carry on. People have the fear of the unknown and religion can give them the answers they need.

I recently read one of Richard Dawkins books and found it very interesting. Was reminded of it after seeing the flying spaghetti monster reference. But that isn't the point of the op...

Your point is a valid one. What is more likely - an invisible being / creator controlling everything or aliens being involved. Science would lead us to the latter if you had to pick

Either way I am happy sitting on the fence where I will stay until someone proves it either way - which will probably be never.

Random late night religious discussion on a forum I use mainly for playing computer games

 

[Castiel]

One is a more rational and sensible conclusion (mine), the other... isn't. It's a fantasy.

Which is a leap of faith on your part to begin with.....is it entirely rational to take definitive positions on something you cannot possibly know.

Probably, yes. But this was my point to begin with. I see what you're saying, though: I should clarify that I have accepted the fact Bunny is susceptible to fantasy and perhaps suggestible to higher power/after life stuff - I was saying that on that premise, he'd just attach himself to whatever religion was prevalent in whatever country.

What you have done is make an assumption based on your own prejudices and not on empirical evidence of how Bunnykillbot has come to his worldview, his justifications for doing so, or whether those criteria are compatible with other worldviews or faiths.....

Not at all a rational position to take.

 

[Castiel]

I'm an atheist in the broad and popular sense, which is 'atheist agnostic' (which is not to say there are none, just to reject belief in them). We're alike.

Except you do not simply reject belief in them...you castigate others for believing in them, therefore you are effectively and literally (in this thread) saying they categorically do not exist and those that disagree with you are delusional fantasists, so you are not alike in that regard.

 

[Woden]

Christans, Jews and Muslims are all very open about what they believe, you can even get copies of their holy texts, legally, for free.

The "church" of Scientology Hides what they believe in to those that dont pay for it in cash or slave labour. To the point that they use intimidation and the courts to silence people that try to bring the information into the public eye. That alone speaks volumes.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Check this out apparenly this dude can can channel Allah through his foot by dipping it into oil when he covers his heel in water then rubs it on someones afflicted area and there " healed"

This will have you in stitches.

Does it all over the world apparently and has a huge following.

Oh dear me... what is wrong with people. He does not allow his videos to be commented on either.

He is a BIG " Peer " or what ever they call it.

 

[Pudney]

The Samurai were predominantly followers of a form of Shinto and Confucianism.....They had a very strict moral and chivalric code we know as Bushido. Zen Buddhism influenced parts of Bushido, but they generally relate to the non-Martial portions of the code and the Bushido is contradictory insofar that it promotes a dichotomy of peaceful philosophy and martial virtue.

Bushido doesn't promote murder, either of the individual or the masses and has a very permanent punishment for any Samurai who fails to uphold both the tenets and virtues of Bushido or doesn't conduct themselves in accordance with the fairness, justice, charity and so on that Bushido demands.....many people think it is just about a set of martial rules designed for disipline and fighting efficiency and it is much, much more.

Fantastic, saves me finding examples of Shinto and Confucianism as well. The point being religions rarely promote violence, but if you look there are always examples of followers who have done deeds of violence.

The original post I replied this too seemed to think that Eastern religions are somehow more peaceful - that's only because Western knowledge of history in that region is poor.