BSc/BA/MSc/MBA after you name...

[InKursion]

(yes, there are exceptions to this like LLB / CEng etc)


Conversely... I'm also not a fan of non-medical "doctors" - not to detract from a PhD being a worthwhile pursuit... but IMO there should be alternate terminology

This is the really poor post I was on about. Firstly, LLB's aren't even that respected in the legal profession - many people cross over into postgraduate law without LLB's and take some higher graduate qualification. So to say the LLB is an 'exception' on the same level as a CEng is a little misguided.

And the "non-medical" doctors thing is a sheer ROFL. European doctorates are some of the oldest, highest qualifications of learning and scholarship. So which has more validity: a doctor from a medieval institution in theology and the arts, or an NHS doctor from St. George's medical school? Jesus H. Christ...

 

[Shayper]

Depends on where you get the degree from... unfortunately this nomenclature doesn't work if you tag the name of the institution on the end.

Degrees from red brick unis are still worth the effort...

So because I'm at maybe not as prestigious a university as some, my degree isn't worth the effort?

Nice...

 

[InKursion]

Crinkleshoes:

That's the problem. Graduates these days are just too arrogant, and can't afford to be picky in the current times. If they want to get a a good job then they need to start at the bottom and work there way up, and it will sometimes take several years. I graduated with a BA and an MA in Classics as I had the deluded idea that I could go into academia. As I didn't do a career specific degree and as I didn't have a lot of previous job experience, I had to work in less then desirable jobs for a few years before finding my feet. So if any of you on here are thinking of going to uni do a degree that will actually have the possible chance of a job at the end of it! You need to choose your course carefully these days, I certainly wouldn't have done a useless degree like Classics if I was going to uni now and paying 9000 in tuition fees.

'Useless'. Define useless? No value to the job market? Does that really make your 4 years of university education 'useless'? Seems a very stark statement to me.

And why was your ambitions of academia 'delusional'? Were you unexceptional? Where did you get your degrees from? Did you not get a First at undergrad? Etc. Academia is a very good career... you just have to be very good yourself to make it. No different from any other upper-middle class 'respectable' career, e.g. law, medicine.

 

[InKursion]

So because I'm at maybe not as prestigious a university as some, my degree isn't worth the effort?

Nice...

Of course this is the case. Are you naive? Top employers favour, at the most selective, around 5-6 institutions (nominally Oxbridge, Warwick, Manchester, London) and, at best, 2:1 graduates from the top 25 or so institutions. The rest are frankly cannon fodder if they're paying £9k a year. People that are being used more as cash-cows for university-businesses, more than people with any real hope of having an 'improved' future. The education isn't as good, the boost to job prospects isn't as tangible... everything about it is second-rate. That is why most universities outside of the 'prestigious' top echelons work very hard on cultivating close contacts to business and industry. They don't have the prestige factor to 'wow' employers like the top universities do (I realise 'wow' is more like a pathetic half-raised eyebrow in today's graduate market, but the point still stands).

 

[Cagerty]

One of my best friends graduated in the same year as me from a very respectable university with a First in Film Studies. It was actually quite an academic and theoretical course. He's now working in production for Disney, in London.

So don't use these sort of degrees as automatic, lazy euphemisms for '****'. Because a lot of other things are important considering factors: not least the university awarding it. Some film courses are hugely prestigious and more competitive than any STEM subject at a Russell Group. They can be a mark of high quality, too, and the film-industry / media needs fresh talent.

I take your point, there are obviously some very prestigious courses out there and can lead to a great job like your friend, but there are also many rubbish courses out there that will get you nowhere. A friend of mine did Film Studies at a less then prestigious university, and in my opinion from what I saw of his course content, it was easy and not academically rigorous at all. I could have done it standing on my head!

But I take your point that I was generalizing to an extent

Peace

 

[crinkleshoes]

So was it your education, or your experience that got you this "massively paid" (read: clearly not that greatly paid) job?

Do make your mind up.

You quote "massively paid" as if it's a term I used... I never said that, just noticeably more than the majority of the population could ever hope to reach in their lifetime. The average wage is around £30k, I think?

My basic's in the high 40s, with overtime, car allowance, commission and bonuses - my first year with this specific company grossed me a shade over £74k

I started with them on only £36k basic, have since had 2 promotions with a 3rd not far away... they're either making a new job title for me or I'm going to be pushed more heavily in to pre-sales

It's still nowhere near enough to make me "happy"... need more... I still feel poor because I'm very good at spending it But I'm happy where I am currently, it's a good amount of money to earn for my age.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

So no where near what "more than the majority of the population could ever hope to reach in their lifetime" at all, and a rather unimpressive number altogether then?

And quelle surprise.. you care about job titles. You couldn't be more stereotype if you tried.

 

[InKursion]

If you can't be happy on £75k I'd suggest taking a few thousand of it and getting yourself a therapist. Sounds like serious #firstworldproblems or consumerist/materialist brainwashing to me.

 

[Shayper]

Of course this is the case. Are you naive? Top employers favour, at the most selective, around 5-6 institutions (nominally Oxbridge, Warwick, Manchester, London) and, at best, 2:1 graduates from the top 25 or so institutions. The rest are frankly cannon fodder if they're paying £9k a year. People that are being used more as cash-cows for university-businesses, more than people with any real hope of having an 'improved' future. The education isn't as good, the boost to job prospects isn't as tangible... everything about it is second-rate. That is why most universities outside of the 'prestigious' top echelons work very hard on cultivating close contacts to business and industry. They don't have the prestige factor to 'wow' employers like the top universities do (I realise 'wow' is more like a pathetic half-raised eyebrow in today's graduate market, but the point still stands).

I'm not naive, I just don't appreciate people de-evaluating my hard work because I wasn't given the chance to get to the best uni that I could.

Where you get your degree shouldn't matter - it should be the fact that you have a degree at all. I know it does, but that's besides the point. It's morally wrong, and I really don't appreciate random people on the internet disparaging people for what uni they go to. Even indirectly, as that just shows that they agree with how the system works.

Yes, Greenwich isn't the most prestigious uni, but I'm doing a degree in maths. Surely a degree in maths, no matter where it's from, should still be an achievement.

 

[Cagerty]

'Useless'. Define useless? No value to the job market? Does that really make your 4 years of university education 'useless'? Seems a very stark statement to me.

And why was your ambitions of academia 'delusional'? Were you unexceptional? Where did you get your degrees from? Did you not get a First at undergrad? Etc. Academia is a very good career... you just have to be very good yourself to make it. No different from any other upper-middle class 'respectable' career, e.g. law, medicine.

All I meant by useless is that it had no value in the job market. I was just being self deprecating when i said 'delusional'. In answer to your questions, no I wasn't good enough or passionate enough about the subject to become an academic as it is a hugely competetive field. I also could not afford to continue with it at the time as a PHD is hugely expensive and I coudn't secure funding for it. I did get a 1st in my undergrad degree, and from a good university ( Durham ), but that meant diddly squat once I was out in the real world. I am quite happy to admit that I wasn't good enough to make it

 

[InKursion]

I'm not naive, I just don't appreciate people de-evaluating my hard work because I wasn't given the chance to get to the best uni that I could.

Where you get your degree shouldn't matter - it should be the fact that you have a degree at all. I know it does, but that's besides the point. It's morally wrong, and I really don't appreciate random people on the internet disparaging people for what uni they go to. Even indirectly, as that just shows that they agree with how the system works.

Yes, Greenwich isn't the most prestigious uni, but I'm doing a degree in maths. Surely a degree in maths, no matter where it's from, should still be an achievement.

"Where you get your degree from shouldn't matter" - this is idealistic and naive. Of course it should matter. There are 150 degree-awarding institutions in the UK. 40-50% of leavers have a degree. There are nowhere near enough jobs for 40-50% of the young population to find 'graduate' employment. Where you get your degree from becomes one of the prime filtering methods. Are you really saying that someone from London Met that entered uni with 3D's at A-Level 'deserves' to be considered an equal applicant with someone that got 5A's and went to Oxford? Ludicrous.

Yes, you're doing a Maths degree... but the quality and standards of assessment change massively between universities. Again, a 2:1 in Maths from London Met will be a HELL of a lot easier to get than a 2:1 in Maths from Oxford. The standards of teaching and the expectations are far, far higher. So employers as a result consider where you got your degree from almost as highly as the grade you got. A first from a low-ranking institution unfortunately isn't as much of a personal achievement as a first from a top-ranking one. These things matter. Like earlier posts in this thread have mentioned, giving everyone a 'degree' devalues the qualification and makes it vague and lacking any real standard. People look at how 'traditional' or 'respected' your subject is, and they look at where you got it from. It says almost as much as the grade itself.

 

[InKursion]

All I meant by useless is that it had no value in the job market. I was just being self deprecating when i said 'delusional'. In answer to your questions, no I wasn't good enough or passionate enough about the subject to become an academic as it is a hugely competetive field, I also could not afford to continue with it at the time as a PHD is hugely expensive and I coudn't secure funding for it. I did get a 1st in my undergrad degree, and from a good university ( Durham ), but that meant diddly squat once I was out in the real world. I am quite happy to admit that I wasn't good enough to make it

That's a shame mate, Durham is fantastic for privately funding Classics and Literature! Surely one of the best places in the UK for chances of getting departmental funding.

 

[crinkleshoes]

So because I'm at maybe not as prestigious a university as some, my degree isn't worth the effort?

Nice...

Without knowing more about you, what you're doing, where you're doing it & what you hope to acheive with it - I couldn't possibly comment whether your specific course is worth the effort or not...

However, as general as a generalised statement is... for the most part, polytechnic offered degrees are not worth doing thanks to them devaluing the entire market substatially.

Yes... there are exceptions.

If you learned to read the point of a message rather than allowing it to affect your emotions and that subsequently affect how you interpret a message (ie, on a personal level)... you might get further. Conversely, I could do with being more empathic...

 

[Cagerty]

Of course this is the case. Are you naive? Top employers favour, at the most selective, around 5-6 institutions (nominally Oxbridge, Warwick, Manchester, London) and, at best, 2:1 graduates from the top 25 or so institutions. The rest are frankly cannon fodder if they're paying £9k a year. People that are being used more as cash-cows for university-businesses, more than people with any real hope of having an 'improved' future. The education isn't as good, the boost to job prospects isn't as tangible... everything about it is second-rate. That is why most universities outside of the 'prestigious' top echelons work very hard on cultivating close contacts to business and industry. They don't have the prestige factor to 'wow' employers like the top universities do (I realise 'wow' is more like a pathetic half-raised eyebrow in today's graduate market, but the point still stands).

Coudn't have said it better myself

However, that's not to say some newer universities aren't good quality, because some of them are.

 

[crinkleshoes]

So no where near what "more than the majority of the population could ever hope to reach in their lifetime" at all, and a rather unimpressive number altogether then?

Majority = >51%

51% of the population do not have the capability to earn what I am already earning before the mid-point of my 20s!

My statement still holds true

You did better? Congratulations...

And quelle surprise.. you care about job titles. You couldn't be more stereotype if you tried.

Where did you get this from... the point I was making is that if you prove your worth, you don't just get generic promotions/bumps... some companies will make brand new positions for you to fill! And yeah... that'll be going in my CV somehow

 

[Shayper]

Without knowing more about you, what you're doing, where you're doing it & what you hope to acheive with it - I couldn't possibly comment whether your specific course is worth the effort or not...

However, as general as a generalised statement is... for the most part, polytechnic offered degrees are not worth doing thanks to them devaluing the entire market substatially.

Yes... there are exceptions.

If you learned to read the point of a message rather than allowing it to affect your emotions and that subsequently affect how you interpret a message (ie, on a personal level)... you might get further. Conversely, I could do with being more empathic...

Maths, at Greenwich, with a view to going into banking.

And I know my response was a little... attacking. I apologise, I'm not very good at keeping my emotions out of things.

 

[Cagerty]

I'm not naive, I just don't appreciate people de-evaluating my hard work because I wasn't given the chance to get to the best uni that I could.

Where you get your degree shouldn't matter - it should be the fact that you have a degree at all. I know it does, but that's besides the point. It's morally wrong, and I really don't appreciate random people on the internet disparaging people for what uni they go to. Even indirectly, as that just shows that they agree with how the system works.

Yes, Greenwich isn't the most prestigious uni, but I'm doing a degree in maths. Surely a degree in maths, no matter where it's from, should still be an achievement.

I am not trying to disparage newer universities ( some are very good, but others are terrible ). I am more objecting to 'fake' degrees. Your doing Maths, which is a traditional, academically rigorous subject and it is still a degree in Maths so it shouldn't matter that it is from Greenwich. Unfortunately to a lot of snobby employers it does matter which Uni or public school you went to. Employers I think look at the uni rather then the quality of the actual course, which is wrong.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Majority = >51%

51% of the population do not have the capability to earn what I am already earning before the mid-point of my 20s!

My statement still holds true

You did better? Congratulations...


Where did you get this from... the point I was making is that if you prove your worth, you don't just get generic promotions/bumps... some companies will make brand new positions for you to fill! And yeah... that'll be going in my CV somehow

No, your statement is not true. The majority of the population will earn much, much more than £74k in their lifetime.

Where did I get the idea of your more than blatant love for job titles from? It's a bit obvious. More so with that reply.

 

[KNiVES]

Check these smug *****s out.

^ Good thing that auto stars out, I would have happily accepted a holiday otherwise

 

[InKursion]

Maths, at Greenwich, with a view to going into banking.

And I know my response was a little... attacking. I apologise, I'm not very good at keeping my emotions out of things.

The thing is, banking is massively competitive. High-paid graduate jobs have several hundred (if not thousands) of applicants for every single job vacancy. How are you going to compare to a Maths/Economics grad from, say, Oxbridge/UCL/Imperial/Warwick? Where you get your degree from really does matter. Either that or the people you know, etc.

Not meaning to be discouraging at all, just pointing out a fairly obvious reality to the graduate job market that I'm not sure you've realised.