Families need £36,800 to live acceptably.....

A fair bit below, and it's tight but I know how to make do. Save on somethings and treat everyone and then. I know I struggle compared to my friends but nothing is impossible.
No tax credits or anything else.
Minimum wage is really just that, it's not from lack of trying either but that is how it is currently. Mind you a job is better than no job!
 
A lot of people have rich parents that realy helped them get a start. I work with people who still live with their parents (in their 20s and even early 30s) and earn the same salary as me. They got a car from their parents, they get all the food free etc. They have £10000s in the bank. Not everyone is fortunate like that. Some people have to pay their own way.
 
what age is this couple and the kids?

a lot changes between a young couple with little kids and older couples with teenagers

i shared a room with my brother until i was 9 as we lived in a 2 bedroom flat, would that be socially unacceptable these days?
 
The problem with single parents being unable to work. Or even couples is just the insane cost of childcare. If child care was cheap or even provided as a work benefit. It would not be so hard.
 
realBabelfish said:
what?!?! i earn a bit more than you but not enough to get tax credits (i only work 4 days a week) yet with tax credits you get a fair bit more. what the hell?!?!

do you have 1 or 2 kids? live in london?
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Just to clarify.

I get £0 Working Tax Credits.

I get about £400 Child Tax Credits.

That's based on 2 kids (age 7 and 6), it'll change soon as my 3rd has just been born, so I don't know if that figure will change.

Child Benefit is a fixed amount anyway that everyone with kids gets.

I live in Yorkshire so cost of living isn't as high as down south.

Also my £22k wage listed there is gross. I get about £19k or so net. So my Yearly net income is probably around £25k or so.
 
realBabelfish said:
;) you just joined the 1% of the forum who doesnt seem to want the poor to starve ;)

i wish the super rich were as generous.
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It's not really even generous.

I hate the public, just I appreciate that most of our society's problems are caused by poverty, income inequity, poor social mobility & inequality of opportunity - I may hate the chav's but I don't blame them for being the product of a bad environment.

I want to live a society with less crime, higher quality of life & better economic stability - all of which are damaged by short sighted short term greed.

It's more of a recognition of reality, that for business to thrive it requires demand (which is a result of a decent disposable income for the population), the wage repression which is currently in effect on the majority of the people of the UK is currently & will continue to have disastrous long term consequences - one of which is the inflated welfare budget (which makes tax-payers subsidise wages which in reality are too low) along with diminished demand for goods & services resulting in unemployment (creating a cycle of economic depression).
 
jakspyder said:
The problem with single parents being unable to work. Or even couples is just the insane cost of childcare. If child care was cheap or even provided as a work benefit. It would not be so hard.
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Is childcare a restricted business? I know it is very expensive in my area and I'm wonder if its because other providers are being blocked from opening? Surely cant cost that much to hire 2 or 3 supervisors in a large hall...
 
HeX said:
Just to clarify.

I get £0 Working Tax Credits.

I get about £400 Child Tax Credits.

That's based on 2 kids (age 7 and 6), it'll change soon as my 3rd has just been born, so I don't know if that figure will change.

Child Benefit is a fixed amount anyway that everyone with kids gets.

I live in Yorkshire so cost of living isn't as high as down south.

Also my £22k wage listed there is gross. I get about £19k or so net. So my Yearly net income is probably around £25k or so.
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Still does not make sense.

I earn £22k, and we qualify for £9/week tax credits, that's with one child.

How are you getting 10x what we are apparently entitled to for one extra child?

£22k is only just enough. We don't splash out on luxuries, we don't have expensive Sky TV, we have one car that's 13 years old, we are extremely tight with our grocery shop (~£50/week). I spend 3 hours a day getting the train to and from work because it's marginally cheaper than driving.

My partner's contribution based JSA finishes this month - after that we are entitled to nothing (sorry, make that £30/week - almost enough to cover the little one's food).

And before the "tell her to get a job" she's looking, and has been for the last 3 months (since the little one was old enough to be put in a nursery). Problem being she needs something which earns enough to cover his childcare or there's no point.

Actually she's just been offered a job. Only problem being it involves 2 trains and 2 buses (and 2 hours) to get there, and me picking her up at 2am to get home (followed by getting up at 5am to go to work myself).
 
groen said:
What do you do for a job elmarko1234 if you don't mind me asking.
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Statistical modeller.

I create propensity models which determine the probability of a population to take X action, then define a series of rules which can be use to predict future populations based off a series of variables (by using training data, control groups etc.)

Not exactly thrilling stuff, but it gives you an appreciation for how worthless anecdotal evidence is (which many seem to value & use to support a particular ideology).
 
Posty said:
Is childcare a restricted business? I know it is very expensive in my area and I'm wonder if its because other providers are being blocked from opening? Surely cant cost that much to hire 2 or 3 supervisors in a large hall...
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Well you have to be registered and inspected by Ofsted, no more than 6 children under 8 per adult or 3 under 5, insurance, suitable premises, and staff need to earn a wage..........


Since the avergae childminding fee is £3.71 per child per hour (regional variations apply of course) and you might only have 3 kids per childminder thats a total gross revenue of £11.13 per hour before you deduct your costs of the building/insurance/toys/activities off so probably not much more than minimum wage for the childminder.

Problem is that it soon adds up. Say 2 kids for 40 hours per week while you are at work is going to cost you £296.80 per week net so well over £20k of your gross wages is gone on childcare.
 
Posty said:
Is childcare a restricted business? I know it is very expensive in my area and I'm wonder if its because other providers are being blocked from opening? Surely cant cost that much to hire 2 or 3 supervisors in a large hall...
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There was a thread somewhere on here where someone broke down the cost for running childcare, turned out that actually it was pretty expensive. Thanks to in part to HSE regulations.
 
Haggisman said:
Still does not make sense.

I earn £22k, and we qualify for £9/week tax credits, that's with one child.

How are you getting 10x what we are apparently entitled to for one extra child?

£22k is only just enough. We don't splash out on luxuries, we don't have expensive Sky TV, we have one car that's 13 years old, we are extremely tight with our grocery shop (~£50/week). I spend 3 hours a day getting the train to and from work because it's marginally cheaper than driving.

My partner's contribution based JSA finishes this month - after that we are entitled to nothing (sorry, make that £30/week - almost enough to cover the little one's food).

And before the "tell her to get a job" she's looking, and has been for the last 3 months (since the little one was old enough to be put in a nursery). Problem being she needs something which earns enough to cover his childcare or there's no point.

Actually she's just been offered a job. Only problem being it involves 2 trains and 2 buses (and 2 hours) to get there, and me picking her up at 2am to get home (followed by getting up at 5am to go to work myself).
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Bung your details in here:

http://taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

It'll tell you what you are entitled to.

Sounds to me like you aren't getting all you could.
 
If I want to have a family, I want to be earning 80K+. Can go a bit less purely because I have large health related out goings.

Scrapping by and living comfortably are two different things. I certainly want to give my kids a foot on the ladder/ help with University when they grow up.
 
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To be fair, if people only had kids who could "afford them" - our population would be dropping so fast the entire economy would collapse under the weight of the pension bill in 30 years.

We need constant population growth for this pyramid scheme to keep working, that or a complete rethink of modern western capitalism.
 
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