Families need £36,800 to live acceptably.....

30k is excessive.

I'd say you 'need' about 20k to live an acceptable life. As in, afford the basics of living, and have a little bit left over.

Really depends on circumstances though... someone who has a mortgage to pay will obviously need more.
 
Castiel said:
It was aimed at your position of relative education to earnings and the claim that State education was rubbish, it was an anecdotal illustration that your position was flawed given the criteria you have been applying to relative wealth.
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It doesn't prove anything - state schools are still terrible when put alongside grammar/private/selective schools. Your wife has done well for herself, and fair play to her - she's clearly smart and despite receiving an education which could have been better she's still achieved.

I wish the same could be said of everyone who has been to state school, particularly in the last 30 years. My brother went to a state school, I went to a grammar. The difference in the environment, levels of education, peers, background of kids, extra cirricular activities, grades etc. wasnight and day. '

My point is, and still stands, that education from the state simply isn't as good as it could be, and as stated earlier I believe that the lack of selective education within the state is a real problem.

Castiel said:
I fought in no illegal wars whatsoever. Unless you have specific, legally supported evidence to contrary I would refrain from making spurious assumptions.....thankyou.
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It was a tongue in cheek comment, of course I dont know what you have done in your career.

Of course the legality of war at all is questionable, but that's a debate for another thread.
 
shoes said:
It doesn't prove anything - state schools are still terrible when put alongside grammar/private/selective schools. Your wife has done well for herself, and fair play to her - she's clearly smart and despite receiving an education which could have been better she's still achieved.
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The point it illustrates is that someone's education level is subjective, it is simply not only attributable to the school they go to, or the relative success of that school....The fact that most grammar Schools are State Schools only reinforces what I was saying about your sweeping commentary on the State system. He education was very good, and the school she attended is very good today as our son attends it currently.

shoes said:
I wish the same could be said of everyone who has been to state school, particularly in the last 30 years. My brother went to a state school, I went to a grammar. The difference in the environment, levels of education, peers, background of kids, extra cirricular activities, grades etc. wasnight and day.
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Was your School a fee paying school, and if so, why did you Parents fund your education and not your brothers. I agree that not all schools are as good as they should be, in fact some are downright terrible, but you simply cannot justify the sweeping statement you make in respect to every State School or Private School for that matter.

shoes said:
My point is, and still stands, that education from the state simply isn't as good as it could be, and as stated earlier I believe that the lack of selective education within the state is a real problem.
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I am not one to disagree with a selective system as opposed to a comprehensive one, however there are plenty of poor private schools out there as well, the difference is that they rarely survive very long as Parents can afford to be more selective when they are paying.
 
Why we bother working hard to better ourselves only for the government to take it off us and give it to those who don't try or want to better themselves is beyond me.
 
elmarko1234 said:
Amen.

Why we tax people who earn less than 18k is beyond me, let alone taxing people who are entitled to benefits.
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now this would be good. or just up the minimum wage so its easier for us to be closer to the £18k. my employer 'could' easily give me a pay rise to make my life easier and not really affect him too much, but he wont as he isn't forced to.
 
elmarko1234 said:
Amen.

Why we tax people who earn less than 18k is beyond me, let alone taxing people who are entitled to benefits.
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I agree, it is madness to tax people who need support from the State. The State is effectively a contributing factor to their need for State support, a contradiction in terms if ever there was one.

What we should be doing is deciding what a reasonable liveable wage is and then removing taxation from anyone who earn on or below that figure, at the same time as simplifying the tax system as to make it more efficient and less prone to tax avoidance and evasion.
 
paradisiac said:
like i have said, i take home around £10k a year, and i manage, but that's all. some weeks i don't eat too well, but others are ok. if i got an extra £20-£30 a week (£1k-£1.5k a year) would make a huge difference to me and still only takes me to under £12k after tax.
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Exactly,

10k PA after tax is around £11,5k PA.

That's £848.53 a month.

Increase that to a fair £1,216.86 a month (£18k PA) then you get almost £400 extra a month to spend in the economy, not worry about the bills & generally enjoy a higher quality of life.

A pretty small increase in wage turns no disposable income into £400 a month disposable income.

It's not like I'm advocating giving people £5000 a month for any job, just enough to enable people to boost demand for goods & services & reduce all of the associated negative social consequences of people living on a low wage.


Castiel said:
I agree, it is madness to tax people who need support from the State. The State is effectively a contributing factor to their need for State support, a contradiction in terms if ever there was one.

What we should be doing is deciding what a reasonable liveable wage is and then removing taxation from anyone who earn on or below that figure, at the same time as simplifying the tax system as to make it more efficient and less prone to tax avoidance and evasion.
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I fully agree, the stupidity involved in taking with one hand & giving with the other is immense.

Think of the associated costs involved in administrating that mess, not to mention the potential for abuse.
 
I earn £25,000 and my wife around £10,000 and whilst we aren't rolling in the dough, we still manage to bring up a 2 year old and pay the bills.

I'd say (for us) that's the bare minimum though.
 
elmarko1234 said:
Exactly,

10k PA after tax is around £11,5k PA.

That's £848.53 a month.

Increase that to a fair £1,216.86 a month (£18k PA) then you get almost £400 extra a month to spend in the economy, not worry about the bills & generally enjoy a higher quality of life.

A pretty small increase in wage turns no disposable income into £400 a month disposable income.

It's not like I'm advocating giving people £5000 a month for any job, just enough to enable people to boost demand for goods & services & reduce all of the associated negative social consequences of people living on a low wage.


I fully agree, the stupidity involved in taking with one hand & giving with the other is immense.

Think of the associated costs involved in administrating that mess, not to mention the potential for abuse.
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funnily enough i had this discussion with a colleague this morning. if i got a pay rise, i would buy more, therefore more would go into the economy making things better for everyone. as it stands now, that extra money is sitting in the business bank account not benefiting the economy at all.

its not even like i want a huge pay rise, £20-£30 a week would do me, that's less than £1 an hour.
 
elmarko1234 said:
Exactly,

10k PA after tax is around £11,5k PA.

That's £848.53 a month.

Increase that to a fair £1,216.86 a month (£18k PA) then you get almost £400 extra a month to spend in the economy, not worry about the bills & generally enjoy a higher quality of life.

A pretty small increase in wage turns no disposable income into £400 a month disposable income.
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if you increase minimum wage you increase inflation, you also make it more likley stuff will be outsourced...... so you get more people on benefits now needing £19k a year to have the same life style...
 
edscdk said:
if you increase minimum wage you increase inflation, you also make it more likley stuff will be outsourced...... so you get more people on benefits now needing £19k a year to have the same life style...
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the problem is, i have been on the same wage for 3 years, it doesn't go up to match inflation. so i end up pretty much effectively taking a pay decrease each year.
 
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