Nokia not out of the doo doo yet

SKILL said:
the nokia name doesn't really mean all that much anymore and that's all you'd be getting really
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Nokia's patent portfolio is huge, if Microsoft made a bid then I'd expect Google, Apple and a few others to make a bid as well.

SKILL said:
RIM will release BBOS 10 (or QNX to everyone else) and then they'll run out of money and go bust :p
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More likely that RIM will run out of money, release a phone with a half finished OS and go bust, just like Palm.
 
That's a good point, I'd forgotten about patents <grumbles about the patent system being fundamentally broken>

It'll be more than half-finished, they must be pretty close to finished by now, but it's way too late to save them now no-matter what happens,

I guess that means I should want MS to succeed with WP to stop it just being Apple Vs Google, but I just can't bring myself to want that :p
 
SKILL said:
That's a good point, I'd forgotten about patents <grumbles about the patent system being fundamentally broken>

It'll be more than half-finished, they must be pretty close to finished by now, but it's way too late to save them now no-matter what happens,

I guess that means I should want MS to succeed with WP to stop it just being Apple Vs Google, but I just can't bring myself to want that :p
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They are a LONG way from being finished. Trust me on that.
 
MS are a software company, i very much doubt they are interested in Nokia right now they will wait until Nokia are dead and pick over the body for patents.
 
Unlike Nokia/WP, RIM have nothing major to offer that hasn't been seen before. While the MS/Nokia partnership isn't exactly setting the world on fire the release of W8 will likely give it a nudge in the right direction.

RIM on the other hand will be coming in with a new OS so late in the game and only a bruised reputation to go with.

I wonder if Nokia have a team secretly working on Android as a backup if WP really goes wrong.
 
Has to be Android. Elop has killed everything else at Nokia now. Though if it got to that point a hostile takeover would happen as neither Apple or Microsoft would want to allow it (patents).

I really do wonder if there is anything Nokia can do now. I'm assuming come October they are gonna bring it with WP8 devices over all price points. Culminating in what I hope is an utter monster of a device that'll have PureView and specs to easily rival Samsung & Apple. Along with WP8 that has all the oddities of 7.5 fixed plus much shiny newness.

Problem is there still won't be the mainstream "it" apps, they'll be going up directly against to new iPhone AND I wonder if the market is now saturated in terms of mindshare. You are either with Apple or Google and are likely to stay with them thanks to ecosystem lock-in. Or you are yet to get a smartphone and will ask your friends for a recommendation. In which case it will be either Apple or Google.
 
cymatty said:
Ouch
]
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Seems good to me.

Last quarter was 1.3billion, lumia sales doubled. Still no tablets, still small range of phones. Win8 will not only bring tablets, but will ship to more countries. They seem to be on the right track, if those loses continue to drop at that rate or more.
 
Glaucus said:
Seems good to me.

Last quarter was 1.3billion, lumia sales doubled. Still no tablets, still small range of phones. Win8 will not only bring tablets, but will ship to more countries. They seem to be on the right track, if those loses continue to drop at that rate or more.
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Well Q3 will be difficult, people will be put off buying the windows 7 phones when they will not get the upgrade due later this year.

Lumia sales reached four million which is sales to stores not activations, so who knows how many of those are stuck on a shelf. With the Nokia Lumia 900 dropping to $49.99 on AT&T I guess maybe a few.

Also this looks fairly depressing if you are a Nokia Shareholder

http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp...s=IntervalBasedLine&q=NYSE:NOK&ntsp=0&fct=big
 
Borderline-horrifying: The Lumia 900 launch did NOTHING to Nokia's sales in the USA. 600,000 Q1. 600,000 Q2. That includes all Nokia phones such as S40 & Symbian.

Bad: The amount of customers Nokia are simply losing. People are ditching the brand like there's no tomorrow. In 1.5 years they have lost 4 out of every 5 customers they had.

Good: They are losing cash at a slowish rate. Looks like there is now plenty of time for WP8 to be launched and Nokia devices to come out swinging! If that makes a difference (see my post above).

Stupid:
...revealing a total operating loss of €826 million (around $1 billion). The loss was offset by large licensing royalties and a regular quarterly cheque from Microsoft, resulting in a net cash rise of €102 million (around $125 million).
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Speaking on patents, Stephen Elop told The Wall Street Journal that Nokia "may decide there could be elements of it that could be sold off, turned into more immediate cash for us—which is something that is important when you're going through a turnaround."
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:rolleyes:
 
Intratech said:
If Nokia wants to survive they need to remove the idiot they've put in charge. Elop is single handedly destroying what was once a great company.
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What they need to do is stick to the plan. They were caught out, they tried sticking with there OS and made the hugest mistake ever.
They are now on to a good thing, but it takes time to grow and change the stupructure. With modern phones, it's impossible to have the heyday they once had. But there's no reason they can survive this transition and continue to be great and build their image back.
They still have it, just look at the look and quality of the lumia compared to most smartphones.
 
cymatty said:
Nokia posts $1 billion operating loss for Q2 2012, net cash up $125 million

Ouch

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/19/3169140/nokia-q2-2012-financial-report
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Ugh, that's the problem with tech journalists rushing to get the stories out, I haven't looked at every number. This part;
"Nokia now holds liquid assets valued at just under €4.2 billion ($5.15 billion), down from €4.87 billion ($5.98 billion) last year."
is wrong, €4.87 billion (net cash and liquid assets) is the number for Q1 2012, not Q2 2011.
Ie; they've lost €675 million from their reserves in 3 months. €742 million was dividend payments (which they have to make to prop up the meagre share price), but that received more than that in licensing, money from MS and cash from Siemens.

Oh yeah, I forgot the other big mistake, if you check the figures in the PDF (and any other proper news site, you'll see Q2 losses were €1.41 billion
 
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Nokia's Q3 2012 financial report is out.

It's dire as to be expected.

Commenting on the Q3 results, Stephen Elop, Nokia CEO, said:
“As we expected, Q3 was a difficult quarter in our Devices & Services business; however, we are pleased that we shifted Nokia Group to operating profitability on a non-IFRS basis.

In Q3, we continued to manage through a tough transitional quarter for our smart devices business as we shared the exciting innovation ahead with our new line of Lumia products.

In our mobile phones business, the positive consumer response to our new Asha full touch smartphones translated into strong sales. And in Q3, our mobile phones business delivered a solid quarter with sequential sales growth and improved contribution margin.

In Location & Commerce, we made progress establishing our platform offering with customers like Amazon. This is in line with our plan to expand our location offering to more customers.

And, Nokia Siemens Networks had a remarkable quarter in which we achieved record profitability on a non-IFRS basis and the Nokia Siemens Networks cash balance increased for the fourth quarter in a row.

While we continue to focus on transitioning Nokia, we are determined to carefully manage our financial resources, improve our competitiveness, return our Devices & Services business to positive operating cash flow as quickly as
possible, and ultimately provide more value to our shareholders."
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It really is hilarious how they have to describe the current period as "transitional" when it was "transitional" last year as well. Oh wait because you went with an OS that would become obsolete within a year. Nice move.

Even more funnies:

NOKIA OUTLOOK

- Nokia expects its non-IFRS Devices & Services operating margin in the fourth quarter 2012 to be approximately negative 6%, plus or minus four percentage points. This outlook is based on our expectations regarding a number of factors, including:
  • competitive industry dynamics continuing to negatively affect the Smart Devices and Mobile Phones business units;
  • the fourth quarter being a ramp up quarter for our new Lumia products, which are expected to start selling in select markets;
  • consumer demand, particularly related to our current Lumia products;
  • an expected increase in Devices & Services operating expenses as a result of new product launches, partially offset by expected cost reductions under our restructuring program; and
  • the macroeconomic environment.
- Nokia expects the fourth quarter 2012 to be a challenging quarter in Smart Devices, with a lower-than-normal benefit from seasonality in volumes, primarily due to product transitions and our ramp up plan for our new devices.
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So that is Nokia quite literally stating that they have just gone through two full transitions within a year, nobody wants their Lumia devices AND they aren't releasing their products fast enough - instead "ramping up".

QZHGT.jpg
 
Nokia's direction is so disappointing, they have always been very good at the important stuff, aka making hardware, and that hasn't changed. What bothers me is why aren't they playing to their strengths?

Tying themselves to one mobile OS was the worst decision they ever made, they could and possibly should have been sitting everybit as high in the world as Samsung had they kept all doors open.
 
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