We are all in this together.

Unions aren't there to "protect worker rights" they are there to "maximise worker privileges", even Bob Crowe admits that.

Take BA workers striking over losing a few perks, a perk is not a "right" it's an optional extra a business can offer staff at it's discretion. A right is something that should apply to all workers regardless of the industry they work in.
 
aardvark said:
the idea that tories/business men are evil/after your money, and that socialists/unions are honest/altruistic/looking after the best interests of the public is laughably naive.
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News just in, businesses are not just after your money.

Oh wai.....

I never implied that 100% of either group are good or bad, but looking at the wage distribution statistics in the UK Unions are not strong enough at protecting the pay of the individual workers.

If we had excellent super-powerful unions the share of the wages wouldn't be doing what it is currently.

It must be a shame when the actual data & facts don't backup your argument.

estebanrey said:
Unions aren't there to "protect worker rights" they are there to "maximise worker privileges", even Bob Crowe admits that.

Take BA workers striking over losing a few perks, a perk is not a "right" it's an optional extra a business can offer staff at it's discretion. A right is something that should apply to all workers regardless of the industry they work in.
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Just in my time working I've known the unions support & provide assistance to a number of colleagues who tried to appeal against a dismissal (who had not even been part of the union) - they do support workers rights (along with trying to improve working conditions).

As the data indicates, if you look at the wage distribution of the UK it's obvious that the unions are not obtaining unreasonable privileges for it's members (as if this was the case the statistics would indicate otherwise).

Finally,

While we have large corporations influencing government policy through donations then unions are required as the counter.

If we could get rid of both groups & enshrine a higher standard of workers rights/pay/protection in the law (to apply to all) then I'd be happy to see the back of them - but I've got a feeling that's not going to happen any-time soon.
 
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elmarko1234 said:
If we could get rid of both groups & enshrine a higher standard of workers rights/pay/protection in the law (to apply to all) then I'd be happy to see the back of them - but I've got a feeling that's not going to happen any-time soon.
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This I do agree with. In my ideal world I'd prefer to see more worker's right in black & white enshrined in law and Unions replaced with genuinely unbiased arbitrators that can make legal judgements over employee/employer disputes.
 
estebanrey said:
This I do agree with. In my ideal world I'd prefer to see more worker's right in black & white enshrined in law and Unions replaced with genuinely unbiased arbitrators that can make legal judgements over employee/employer disputes.
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Indeed,

Don't get me wrong, I don't like unions - but I view them as a necessary evil.

But if anybody honestly thinks that without unions the average standard for workers will stay the same they would be in for a major shock - the unions maintain what's considered an "acceptable standard" for general UK working conditions - but, I'd much prefer a strong constitution which protected all workers equally & get rid of the lot (both corporate donors & unions).
 
We Are All In This Together was actually a text sent by Rebekah Brooks to Cameron regarding their collusion between the government and Murdoch's newscorp with regard to the media and several aspects of domestic and international policy. Cameron later decided to use it on one of his speeches because he's that much of an odious little man. The actual text was

"I am so rooting for you tomorrow not just as a proud friend but because professionally we're definitely in this together! Speech of your life! Yes he Cam!"
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It makes me laugh when other people try to use the same quote for their own little agendas, not realizing the original intent of the phrase has far more sinister implications. It's like using quotes from Hitler to describe how you stubbed your little toe. Get real.
 
Mark Serwotka was a disgrace on Newsnight last night. I hate when these Union Bosses can't just come clean and say that they are deliberately using Heathrow's busiest day before the Olympics as a way to cause the most disruption and blackmail the government. Instead he just skips over the question and won't accept that is what they are doing, even when its obvious to everyone and their dog. It takes any credibility and possible public sympathy away from them in my opinion.
 
Nexus said:
Mark Serwotka was a disgrace on Newsnight last night. I hate when these Union Bosses can't just come clean and say that they are deliberately using Heathrow's busiest day before the Olympics as a way to cause the most disruption and blackmail the government. Instead he just skips over the question and won't accept that is what they are doing, even when its obvious to everyone and their dog. It takes any credibility and possible public sympathy away from them in my opinion.
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You may see it that way, but the reality is, unions need to strongarm the government in this way. How do you think we got women's rights, equal pay, minimum wage, racial desegregation and a whole host of common rights everyone takes for granted? It was the unions being complete blocks to the government.

Without the unions taking such drastic measures, governments would be completely unhindered in their ability to make working life for the common man that much harder and unfair. What the top leaders get in pay is largely irrelevant. The unions and their actions affect us all for the best, and most people are too stupid to see that.
 
Robbo said:
Trade Unions need to be abolished. They're a plague.
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lol :rolleyes:

With the conservative in power Unions are needed more than ever, but hey you keep being brainwashed by the right-wing media!!

It was the labor movement that helped secure so much of what we take for granted today.
The 40-hour work week, the minimum wage, family leave, health insurance, Social Security, Medicare, retirement plans.
The cornerstones of the middle-class security all bear the union label.
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Barack Obama
 
Skull said:
I suspect there may be slightly more to the job of running a trade union than that ;)
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There might be, but they have yet to demonstrate such, when they stop holding russian roulette strikes and put forward useful arguements, then perhaps they will be functioning as they should.
Union: Give us what we want or will will make our members strike, after we strike if you haven't given in, then..... well we can't really do anything then.
 
Robbo said:
Needed more than ever to cause trouble and blackmail people, love it. :cool:
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lolZ, you sound just like the daily mail!

How's about big multi-million pound company's stop exploiting it's workers and giving them a fair deal?
Not really the Conserative way though is it, after-all Cameron and crew voted against the minimum wage when Labour bought it in :mad:
 
C.R.A.Z.Y said:
lolZ, you sound just like the daily mail!

How's about big multi-million pound company's stop exploiting it's workers and giving them a fair deal?
Not really the Conserative way though is it, after-all Cameron and crew voted against the minimum wage when Labour bought it in :mad:
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I don't care about or read the Daily Mail (often, anyway).

Are they being exploited though, really? I very much doubt it.

Hey, if your job is that bad, most people tend to find a new one, but no, let's band together and resort to blackmail instead, making our country look stupid in the process.
 
elmarko1234 said:
Indeed,

Don't get me wrong, I don't like unions - but I view them as a necessary evil.

But if anybody honestly thinks that without unions the average standard for workers will stay the same they would be in for a major shock - the unions maintain what's considered an "acceptable standard" for general UK working conditions - but, I'd much prefer a strong constitution which protected all workers equally & get rid of the lot (both corporate donors & unions).
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Explains why every time I phone my bank/broadband provider etc. I get through to an indian. It explains why everything I buy is made in the far east. It explains why our export economy has almost died on it's feet.

This explains why unemployment is so high - if we have to pay a minimum then we can only employ 'x' number of people.

Yay for unions :rolleyes:
 
Where's Dolph when you need him?

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
How's about big multi-million pound company's stop exploiting it's workers and giving them a fair deal?
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I work for a multi billion pound company. They do not, yet that I've noticed anyway, exploit me. If they do I will resign. Vote with my feet and all!

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
Not really the Conserative way though is it, after-all Cameron and crew voted against the minimum wage when Labour bought it in :mad:
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Perhaps that would be because there's a lot of economists that reckon the minimum wage harms an economy and causes unemployment. The cost to employ an individual is set at a high minimum (plus then the NI jobs tax the employer has to pay). Reducing this cost to employ would create a more fluid labour market with more job opportunity which in turn helps drive away from worklessness and provide access to employment. With the minimum wage as it is, the young, unskilled and inexperienced individuals with potential to work are effectively priced out of the market because they can't provide a lower value alternative to more experienced employees.

http://tutor2u.net/economics/gcse/revision_notes/work_minimum_wage.htm
 
shoes said:
This explains why unemployment is so high - if we have to pay a minimum then we can only employ 'x' number of people.

Yay for unions :rolleyes:
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Rather to employ x and give them an acceptable standard of living than employ x+n and have everyone live in poverty, surely?
 
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