Supermarkets and Dairy Farmers

If your not making money, get out of that business.
The farmers just want the market rigged, so they're always profitable regardless of how efficient they are.
.

That is a prety ignorant comment to be fair.

I am also son of a farmer. Have a look at milk prices and cost of production compared to 30 years ago.

Hundreds and hundreds of dairy farmers have been constantly going out of business over the last 10 years.

Also being a farmer is not like a day job, to the vast majority of people this way of life is all they have ever known. Many have tried to diversify but it isn't so easy as just opening up a paintball/mountain boarding center.

No offence but aren't cows milked by machines nowadays? It's not like the old days when you had to sit their on a little stool doing it manually.

That's not to say it isn't hard work, but surely it's easier now then it's ever been.

There is still a ridiculous amount of work involved. Especially if you have a couple of hundred animals and milk 3x a day.
 
Last edited:
I am also son of a farmer. Have a look at milk prices and cost of production compared to 30 years ago.

Hundreds and hundreds of dairy farmers have been constantly going out of business over the last 10 years.
.

That just means that efficiency has improved so much, we don't need as many. If we had trouble meeting demand, suppliers would have the power. Unless collusion was involved.

I admit it's not a nice position to be in. Creative destruction has made a lot of jobs redundant, but they never had protection.
 
Last edited:
There is still a ridiculous amount of work involved. Especially if you have a couple of hundred animals and milk 3x a day.

Of course there is, the point I'm getting at I suppose is 50 years ago you would have had to employ lots of people to milk those cows to keep up with demand whereas now the machine saves you that cost (minus the cost and maintenance of the machines of course).
 
Of course there is, the point I'm getting at I suppose is 50 years ago you would have had to employ lots of people to milk those cows to keep up with demand whereas now the machine saves you that cost (minus the cost and maintenance of the machines of course).

In the past there were more farmers and smaller herds. Also the automation of milking and the introduction of milking machines began at the end of the 19th cenury so most of your point is moot
 
That just means that efficiency has improved so much, we don't need as many. If we had trouble meeting demand, suppliers would have the power. Unless collusion was involved.

I admit it's not a nice position to be in. Creative destruction has made a lot of jobs redundant, but they never had protection.

Until very recently we didn;t produce enough milk to be self sufficient in this country.

Milk production varies greatly subject to weather (grass conditions)

The supermarkets have massive power over the price and they dictate it due to their buying power.

How many people even know what price they pay for their milk in the supermarket? Would you notice if it was 2p more?

Some supermarkets have even been selling 4 litres of milk for £1. I mean that is 10p less per litre than the farmer is paid. This helps nobody.

Did you know that a few years ago one major processor had committed to a leading supermarket (Tesco's) to supply milk at x price. The awful spring ruined grass growth and milk was in short supply. The processor had to ship millions of litres of milk in from Ireland and Poland to meet their commitments to the supermarket.

At the same time they wrote to British farmers to say that the price they were paying them would have to drop to compensate for their additional costs of importing milk. Only in the milk industry could a situation arise that when something is in short supply, the price you get paid for producing it drops!

The current problem stems from the fact that processors have fixed price agreements with the supermarkets which made them a profit as the price of cream was sky high. The price of cream has dropped 50% I think recently which means the processor's don't have this money to offset against the price of milk. The supermarkets won;t pay more so farmers have to be paid less in order to keep the processors profitable.
 
I was wondering the same thing,

I assume there are only one or two buyers?

why is this situation not treated like price fixing?



It's only price fixing if the seller fixes the price. If the buyer fixes the price then it's called "a bargain for customers". The latter is probably a lot more common than people think. If the market consists of only a very limited number of buyers, and all collude, then prices can be forced down to the point where suppliers go out of business. The only way to restore some sort of equilibrium would be for the sellers to act together - but guess what, that's illegal.


M
 
this all kicked off recently because the farmers were told they would be paid even less per litre.

ANd more to the point, they are meant to be given a month's notice but some got only 2 days and one group go tolf their milk price was dropping retrospectively for the previous month!

How can you plan in business when you think you are getting paid x and then at the end of the month you are told, sorry we can only pay you y.
 
Oh and there are certain groups calling for farmers to carry out a mass culling on 1st AUgust.

Of the many ideas suggested to get farmers out of this mess one particularly interesting and radical idea has caught Ian’s eye. It doesn’t involve tipping milk away, and NO direct action by farmers is required at all. It is beautifully simple, and will embarrass non-paying retailers like nothing else. Let’s, simply, kill the cows. Not all of them, obviously! But enough to wake-up the retailers to make a difference. Let’s do it quickly. Now. After all the cows are more valuable as burgers than for milk.

Back in January 2003 the USA started a programme called the CWT (Co-operatives Working Together) Herd Retirement Programme. This took out hundreds of entire herds, which were slaughtered, compensated for and subject to conditions attached to the holding’s non-milk production it cut. It achieved the maximum positive impact on all producers – a cut in volume and an increase in milk price.

The key is for farmers to agree to cull some of their herd on 1st August. But to work we mustn’t suddenly back off when retailers bow to pressure, if indeed they do.

There is a lot of detail to the US scheme, but why couldn’t a variation of the CWT programme, say a voluntary cull, work here? The bottom line is the US scheme saw more than 500,000 cows slaughtered. It was described as a “booming success” claiming it delivered a $11.7 billion industry profit.

By the way, if an average cow was to be completely processed into burgers we calculate that it would yield around 1850 burgers which, using the current ASDA Butchers Selection Quarter Pounder price, would mean that the cow has a burger value of £1032. Having said that the reality is only around half of the animal would go into burgers with the rest going into higher value products. What is its value for milk? Negative if you make a loss from it.

How could a cull scheme work in Britain?

The cows being culled would not be cull cows but young or older milking ones which, currently, would be worth more to dairy farmers dead than alive. Yes it’s a waste of good cows, but you can’t afford to keep them right now!

The PR message would be horrifying for the non-paying retailers. “Retailer X pays a good price for milk so the cows can live. Retailer Y pays a bad price and the cows have to die. Farmers can’t afford to keep them.” There can be no negative PR implications for you farmers because you aren’t a charity and if you can’t afford to keep them you can’t keep them.

It has been suggested that the campaign be kick-started with a photo shoot of haltered cows (including one or two nice pretty Jerseys) in front of every retailer’s HQ and key premises/ stores with a farmer holding a bolt gun, with milk on one side of the cow and a pile of burgers on the other. Every major retailer, middle ground retailer, chain of coffee or corner shops etc should be visited for this photo shoot before the cow goes to slaughter. That should give their PR departments plenty to deal with.

In the first week the first targets would be ASDA/Walmart, Morrisons, Tesco, Sainsburys (yes, those too), plus Lidl, Aldi, Iceland, Costa and CostCo, as well as the Government and all of its departments whose milk procurement policy is right in the thick of it. Oh, and if the OFT thinks about poking its nose over the parapet then we’ll add them to the list too.

The only exclusions for Ian would be M&S and Waitrose. The rest of the retailers are in, and yes I have included Tesco and Sainsburys. Ian thinks the idea would have a huge impact and the first pictures will be taken at the start of the Olympics and pictures would continue from then on. Think about the press coverage with countryside themes at the opening of the Olympics, twinned with thousands of cows going to slaughter because greedy British retailers are screwing farmers. This is genuinely a nightmare PR scenario for the retailers.
 
Oh and there are certain groups calling for farmers to carry out a mass culling on 1st AUgust.

Of the many ideas suggested to get farmers out of this mess one particularly interesting and radical idea has caught Ian’s eye. It doesn’t involve tipping milk away, and NO direct action by farmers is required at all. It is beautifully simple, and will embarrass non-paying retailers like nothing else. Let’s, simply, kill the cows. Not all of them, obviously! But enough to wake-up the retailers to make a difference. Let’s do it quickly. Now. After all the cows are more valuable as burgers than for milk.

Back in January 2003 the USA started a programme called the CWT (Co-operatives Working Together) Herd Retirement Programme. This took out hundreds of entire herds, which were slaughtered, compensated for and subject to conditions attached to the holding’s non-milk production it cut. It achieved the maximum positive impact on all producers – a cut in volume and an increase in milk price.

The key is for farmers to agree to cull some of their herd on 1st August. But to work we mustn’t suddenly back off when retailers bow to pressure, if indeed they do.

There is a lot of detail to the US scheme, but why couldn’t a variation of the CWT programme, say a voluntary cull, work here? The bottom line is the US scheme saw more than 500,000 cows slaughtered. It was described as a “booming success” claiming it delivered a $11.7 billion industry profit.

By the way, if an average cow was to be completely processed into burgers we calculate that it would yield around 1850 burgers which, using the current ASDA Butchers Selection Quarter Pounder price, would mean that the cow has a burger value of £1032. Having said that the reality is only around half of the animal would go into burgers with the rest going into higher value products. What is its value for milk? Negative if you make a loss from it.

How could a cull scheme work in Britain?

The cows being culled would not be cull cows but young or older milking ones which, currently, would be worth more to dairy farmers dead than alive. Yes it’s a waste of good cows, but you can’t afford to keep them right now!

The PR message would be horrifying for the non-paying retailers. “Retailer X pays a good price for milk so the cows can live. Retailer Y pays a bad price and the cows have to die. Farmers can’t afford to keep them.” There can be no negative PR implications for you farmers because you aren’t a charity and if you can’t afford to keep them you can’t keep them.

It has been suggested that the campaign be kick-started with a photo shoot of haltered cows (including one or two nice pretty Jerseys) in front of every retailer’s HQ and key premises/ stores with a farmer holding a bolt gun, with milk on one side of the cow and a pile of burgers on the other. Every major retailer, middle ground retailer, chain of coffee or corner shops etc should be visited for this photo shoot before the cow goes to slaughter. That should give their PR departments plenty to deal with.

In the first week the first targets would be ASDA/Walmart, Morrisons, Tesco, Sainsburys (yes, those too), plus Lidl, Aldi, Iceland, Costa and CostCo, as well as the Government and all of its departments whose milk procurement policy is right in the thick of it. Oh, and if the OFT thinks about poking its nose over the parapet then we’ll add them to the list too.

The only exclusions for Ian would be M&S and Waitrose. The rest of the retailers are in, and yes I have included Tesco and Sainsburys. Ian thinks the idea would have a huge impact and the first pictures will be taken at the start of the Olympics and pictures would continue from then on. Think about the press coverage with countryside themes at the opening of the Olympics, twinned with thousands of cows going to slaughter because greedy British retailers are screwing farmers. This is genuinely a nightmare PR scenario for the retailers.

That post......why?? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Some people are just ******* crazy and need destroying.
 
why dont the farmers look into a cheaper way to produce ... simple

If it is that simple, why not give us all here some of your miraculous ideas?

You'll find that most of the people that cannot grasp where the problem lies are City folk and Townies.... Christ, some of them probably didnt realise milk comes from cows and believed Asda makes the milk :rolleyes:


Do people really want their milk to be imported?
Would people really moan if they paid an extra 5p/litre on their milk they buy from the shops?
 
That post......why?? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Some people are just ******* crazy and need destroying.

Why not? they do have a point. They are a business. Cows are worth more as burgers. Cull them and win the PR fight.

Less cows = less milk + PR coop = right price for the milk.
 
Last edited:
That post......why?? :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Some people are just ******* crazy and need destroying.

Err, that's exactly what needs to happen. If they're worth more as burgers, kill them. Milk price will rise, and cows will start worth more as milk cows again.

I'm not sure burgers cows, and milk cows are the same though. I imagine an old milking cow will taste a little chewy?
 
Last edited:
£1.25 for 500ml cola in a garage vs 40p for the same amount of milk.

Know which I buy when driving up and down the country.
 
But doesnt the free market work perfectly?

Perhaps the government is manipulating things secretly, it must be that because it couldnt possibly be anything to do wtih the free market, because supply/ demand and all that works perfectly when left to itself.

We're on dangerous territory with things like this. Go to our imports and our economy shrinks even more and we're dependant on the whims of others. We're going to have problems with food imports anyway its not a matter of if, its a matter of when. Its insane to destroy more of our self dependance at this time.
 
Back
Top Bottom