Supermarkets and Dairy Farmers

Id happily pay more if it meant keeping the farming community in this country alive, the last thing we need is another production industry drying up (literally), the farms also make our country look better.

If it wasn't a loss making business, perhaps jobs could be created for younger folk in the milk industry, right now though, farming is mostly for middle aged to retirement aged folk, which might actually be an advantage due to the baby boomers, but that wont last, so we need a long term solution.
 
I have a great deal of sympathy for the farmers. Milk is the only food item I can think of that has not went up in price over the last few years. I mean, its not too hard near me to find shops selling 2x2 litres = 4 litres of milk for £2.
I can't believe its sp cheap, and don't for one second doubt them when they say that they make a loss!
 
Is there any mainstream brands available. At the supermarket that do pay everyone a decent price? Not that I can think of many brans of milk.
 
Lots of problems in this country are consumer lead, we import Danish pork, if people saw how it was reared they would be horrified compared to the standards in this country.

The same stands for chicken in this country, broiler chickens, take at look at the legs and then compare it to the legs on a free range chicken. In all likelihood, part of the leg on the broiler bird has been removed to conceal hock burns. For those who don't know a hock burn is where the ammonia in the chicken urine and faeces burns the leg of the chicken.
 
Greebo said:
They are though. You hold on for a while and hope that prices will go back up to a level which means you make money.
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but the recent price change was to 4p less? how long ago did they start losing money with every batch sold and how long would that be sustainable for the average farmer? I'm still pretty skeptical of those figures, you expect me to believe that people are running a business where they're were previously making a loss and are now making a 16% loss on all they sell while hoping it will change... they must have a lot of money in the bank/access to lots of credit or must not spend too much on feed/running costs if they've been able to sustain that for any period of time.... because on the face of it they're all going to go bust in the short term future though I've got a feeling that somehow there will still be dairy farmers in existence in the UK next year..
 
Parents in law are farmers (organic dairy amongst other things) and the price cartel organisation of the supermarkets is really wearing. I don't think people have any idea of what its like to be 'negotiated' with by supermarkets. The family had a larger dairy before foot and mouth but then went Organic and have a better deal now but even on a Waitrose contract they are getting squeezed and they are farming in a way we should be encouraging.

In the drive to create cheaper and cheaper milk welfare standards are going down and while many people don't care about that you really should..you are consuming the rubbish intensively farmed cows are fed and medicated with even if you don't care what happens to them as animals. I find the lack of care about welfare amusing in a way..if people had a clue what foreign farms are stuffing their cows full of they'd be a bit more careful about what they eat and what they are content to pay for it.
 
dowie said:
but the recent price change was to 4p less? how long ago did they start losing money with every batch sold and how long would that be sustainable for the average farmer? I'm still pretty skeptical of those figures, you expect me to believe that people are running a business where they're were previously making a loss and are now making a 16% loss on all they sell while hoping it will change... they must have a lot of money in the bank/access to lots of credit or must not spend too much on feed/running costs if they've been able to sustain that for any period of time.... because on the face of it they're all going to go bust in the short term future though I've got a feeling that somehow there will still be dairy farmers in existence in the UK next year..
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Problem is that a price cut of 4p coincided with farmers costs going up by 2p. Hence easily changing a (small) profit into a loss. Plus the gate price for farmers has been going down month on month in general as costs have risen. Over 3 years I think gate price is less than what it used to be but costs have risen massively especially since farmers are paid the "extra" bonus per litre based on welfare etc which is a good thing for the anaimals but all costs money.

And who can live with retrospective price cuts? You go to work for say £3000 per month and you get to the month end and told sorry you can only have £2800 this month as thats all we can afford. You wouldn;t put up with that and would look to find another job but in the meantime you stay there for another month on £2800 and hope it goes back up to £3000 as you need that much to cover your outgoings, mortgage etc.
 
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Glaucus said:
Is there any mainstream brands available. At the supermarket that do pay everyone a decent price? Not that I can think of many brans of milk.
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M & S is recognised as one of the better if not the best milk buyer for farms. Think they are currenly paying 7p per litre more than the stingiest supermarket.
 
dowie said:
Well if its actually causing a loss to produce it then stop supplying it... why keep burning money. I'd be a bit skeptical of those figures tbh... if you're losing 16% for every batch of milk you supply then you'd very rapidly not have a business at all and all dairy farming would cease to exist - that's not actually happening though.
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remember the thing is cows are animals not machines, you just can go "all right girls you being layed off for 6 months, as we dont need your milk" you have to keep milking them, also a lot of (if not all) have spend 10's of years to breed the cows they want it a vey long term thing, if i used a new bull today, it be 3 years before i have a animal to milk, it be 2-3 more years before i know if those genes give me a improvement, so when times are bad you got to think do i try to get threw the hard times or do i give up on 20-30 years of work.


Is there such thing as a poor farmer?
Some family friends were farmers and the same year he moaned that farmers were hard up he bought a brand new JCB Backhoe loader (Circa £35,000) and hid daughter a horse.
If the milk prices are really that bad then use your farm for something else rather than cows for milk.
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ahh so because he (most likely) bought a new machine on hp/loan he rich, let me ask you this, if the office/factory you worked in bought a new photocopier whould you say that firm must be rich casue they got a new machine, or it about time they invested in some new machinery
remember a JCB Backhoe loader is his tools of trade.


Wow I hope most farmers aren't like you... While I agree a couple of those things on that list are a little silly several certainly aren't. You are a farmer, you have to coexist with the wildlife in this country, if nothing else because it helps you in the long run...
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am very good to the wildlife on my farm, i know what ive got and what it need, i know this because i lived 46 years here, and i ve spend most of thoes years working with it, and i deeply resent some snot nose kid who grew up 30 miles away in a city and who got all his learning from books coming onto my land to try and tell me what right for it because he looked at a map.
 
OpenToSuggestions said:
Is there such thing as a poor farmer?
Some family friends were farmers and the same year he moaned that farmers were hard up he bought a brand new JCB Backhoe loader (Circa £35,000) and hid daughter a horse.
If the milk prices are really that bad then use your farm for something else rather than cows for milk.
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Actually the vast majority of the farms are owned by estates with the farmers renting the land/farmhouses from the estate owners. He bought his daughter a horse, to keep on their farm? It will cost him feed and that's it. Hardly a massive expense now is it. And I doubt he bought his loader in cash, very much so. It's like saying aren't all bankers getting paid million pound bonuses and downing champers with their cornflakes. (try telling that to the cashier the next time you're in branch)

Amp34 said:
Wow I hope most farmers aren't like you... While I agree a couple of those things on that list are a little silly several certainly aren't. You are a farmer, you have to coexist with the wildlife in this country, if nothing else because it helps you in the long run...
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What utter tosh. Farmers are the main reason we have such a diverse wildlife. You think all of those lovely kept hills and green belts do it themselves? If you look in your inner-city, suburban areas. Take a look at all of the wasteland, overrun with weeds and vermin. Produces nothing at all and looks terrible.

All of Btones points are logic and valid. On the whole Farmers care deeply about their land, their cattle and their way of life. It's a back breaking, laborious career but they know their trade and I would trust someone that has been working their land for the last 4 generations more than anyone from Brussels or someone with a degree.
 
just seen some muppet from asda on skynews saying they are trying to get the best deal for there customers. thats all well and good trying to offer the best deal you can, but selling milk at a loss because you cant shouldnt mean you force farmers in to making a loss just because you dont want to lose as much over your own sales figures.
 
GAC said:
just seen some muppet from asda on skynews saying they are trying to get the best deal for there customers. thats all well and good trying to offer the best deal you can, but selling milk at a loss because you cant shouldnt mean you force farmers in to making a loss just because you dont want to lose as much over your own sales figures.
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Also driving your supplier into the ground isn't long term going to be a good deal for the consumer.
 
i wouldnt be surprised if asda (walmart) would be happy for that to happen so they could walk in and pick up dairy farms on the cheap and produce it for themselves while paying a pitance of a wage to the staff.

getting really sick of seeing stories like this now where super markets are dictating to producers what prices they should be paying, rather than the other way around.

just hope this is sorted before the entire dairy industry implodes and we end up importing milk from eastern europe or elsewhere as god only knows what would end up in the milk then.
 
I am really surprised at the amount of support in this thread. Not so surprised with some of the dumb comments though.

Sheep/Beef farmer here but my girlfriend's parents and family in the Shropshire\Powys area are dairy farmers.

A price cut of 2p per little with a farm of 120 Cows is an average loss of £40,000 a year.

estebanrey said:
No offence but aren't cows milked by machines nowadays? It's not like the old days when you had to sit their on a little stool doing it manually.

That's not to say it isn't hard work, but surely it's easier now then it's ever been.
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Yes they are milked by machines, thus creating an increase in the amount that need to be milked. You still need to get the cows in to milk and put the machines on the cows.

sketchytom said:
why dont the farmers look into a cheaper way to produce ... simple
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UK-AL05 said:
If your not making money, get out of that business.
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Milk more efficiently? You do realise that as soon as you go down that route you start to lose animal welfare and step into the region of factory farms where cows spend every day of their lives in a shed....

Those that have tried to go into super dairies have been steam rolled by the welfare groups and planners, its not as easy as a few typed words on a forum.

And the comment about a piece of machinery costing £35k and his daughter having a horse....... :rolleyes:
 
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