and so it begins - GameStop Wants to Sell Used Digital Games

Omaeka said:
That's not the point though, this is a situation where people have a right to care and judge what others do, because selling on digital games is not going to effect the PC market well at all. Its selfish and I hope to god every PC game comes with a one use content pass that unlocks the last half of the game, or something. Definitely online passes like the consoles.
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everything you have stated above is now illegal under the legislation.

This also effects consoles, the Millions Msoft and Sony have just poured into to trying to firgure a way of stopping second hand sales for the nextgens has just failed on Epic proportions. :D
 
If this were to happen surely it would mean game sales after week 1 would drop to basically zero? Why would anyone pay more for a new digital copy than a 'used' digital copy?

This could destroy the games industry as we know it, there would be no more high quality single player games.
 
A second hand sale generates no money whatsoever for anyone besides the company who distributed it in the first place.

Pirating at least has the potential to solidify a hard sale, as tons of people do it simply to procure a demo, because the developers can't be arsed.

To not see the ramifications this could have on the PC market is extremely short sighted, to even deny my metaphor earlier is completely blind. If this becomes the norm, your powerful machines will become nigh obsolete.
 
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Shamikebab said:
If this were to happen surely it would mean game sales after week 1 would drop to basically zero? Why would anyone pay more for a new digital copy than a 'used' digital copy?

This could destroy the games industry as we know it, there would be no more high quality single player games.
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There wouldn't be a enough copies for everyone to buy second hand.

We're finally getting are rights sorted, just need to sort out reasonable use and copying/converting format.
But at the same time, pirating needs to be criminalizes and cracked down on, so developers get their rights as well.
 
Omaeka said:
A second hand sale generates no money whatsoever for anyone besides the company who distributed it in the first place.

Pirating at least has the potential to solidify a hard sale, as tons of people do it simply to procure a demo, because the developers can't be arsed.
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Nonsense.
 
Omaeka said:
A second hand sale generates no money whatsoever for anyone besides the company who distributed it in the first place.

Pirating at least has the potential to solidify a hard sale, as tons of people do it simply to procure a demo, because the developers can't be arsed.

To not see the ramifications this could have on the PC market is extremely short sighted, to even deny my metaphor earlier is completely blind. If this becomes the norm, your powerful machines will become nigh obsolete.
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:rolleyes:

So a sale doesn't generate money, but pirating does generate money. What backwards world are you in. As above total nonsense.

1 second hand game, has to equal 1 sale.
No such relationship exists for pirating.
 
Glaucus said:
:rolleyes:

So a sale doesn't generate money, but pirating does generate money. What backwards world are you in. As above total nonsense.

1 second hand game, has to equal 1 sale.
No such relationship exists for pirating.
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A second hand sale makes absolutely no revenue whatsoever for the developer or even the publisher. When an outlet sells on a second hand copy of a console game, i.e GAME, they take every penny. If the law changed that, this wouldn't have such a dramatic effect on the market, but I doubt it will.

I've known tons of people, including myself who wouldn't of given a game a second thought had they not had the chance to try it first, when a demo isn't available.

So black and white with you people, how you don't actually see the reality of things baffles me.
 
Omaeka said:
A second hand sale makes absolutely no revenue whatsoever for the developer or even the publisher. When an outlet sells on a second hand copy of a console game, they take every penny. If the law changed that, this wouldn't have such a dramatic effect on the market, but I doubt it will.

I've known tons of people, including myself who wouldn't of given a game a second thought had they not had the chance to try it first, when a demo isn't available.

So black and white with you people, how you don't actually see the reality of things baffles me.
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But where did that game come from, yep a genuine sale that made the puublisher moneie. Most people who pirate do not buy, they download and little at all changes their minds. It makes the publisher zero.

Reality is secondhand still makes publisher money, piracy doesn't in the majority of cases and even if it does, it's still against the law.

We should have something akin to speeding offense which is criminal, but at normal does not show as a criminal conviction, unless you do it so much, your taking to court and it's upgraded. Could even be delay with by fixed penalty. That would bring developers far more money and allow are rights of second hand market to be preserved.

It's also a fallacy saying pirates wouldn't buy it anyway. Yes they would, if there wasn't a free alternative. It's how we us to survive before the Internet. We found the money to buy physical goods, before the Internet we still purchased entertainment.
 
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Komedy said:
Nonsense.
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No it isn't.

People pirate because either

A) They want to try before they buy since you're stuck with the majority of PC games you buy these days.

or

B) because they want something for free and weren't going to pay for it anyway.

At least you can potentially get a sale out of someone who pirates the game, with used games the people were likely to buy it anyway but went for the cheaper option i.e the used game option. The developer gets nothing out of used game sales.
 
This is the key paragraph right here. Subscription based game sales on a mass scale here we come

"If the reality is that a developer or publisher is giving you ownership of a game for an unlimited period, then that is what you get –regardless of what the end user license agreement (EULA) might say, according to the court."
 
Glaucus said:
But where did that game come from, yep a genuine sale that made the puublisher moneie. Most people who pirate do not buy, they download and little at all changes their minds. It makes the publisher zero.

Reality is secondhand still makes publisher money, piracy doesn't in the majority of cases and even if it does, it's still against the law.

We should have something akin to speeding offense which is criminal, but at normal does not show as a criminal conviction, unless you do it so much, your taking to court and it's upgraded. Could even be delay with by fixed penalty. That would bring developers far more money and allow are rights of second hand market to be preserved.
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But it doesn't... Lets look at it like this:

Person A pirates game, enjoys, pays for it. Sale +1.

Person B buys game. Sale +1. Person B sells game onto Person C, Person C's copy generates 0£ for the developer, therefore Sale -1.

1 - 1 = ?

Its apples and oranges here, really. There are no benefits of second hand selling whatsoever to developers, you can't really say it frees cash for other games. As Developer A might loose a sale to preowning, and the preown-ee may use the procured funds to buy a completely different dev's creation.

Or it goes in an endless cycle.

Game A sold for Game B, Game B sold for Game C and so on.

I dislike people who pirate, enjoy a game, and play it through, uninstall etc.
I used to do it, then I grew up.

You talk about our rights, yet you completely disregard my point of trying before buying. A video game, digital or physical is your PROPERTY, not like food, before you bring that up, like most people do when discussing pirating. A video game could be considered an asset, same as a car or a house, do you not have the right to try them before you buy them?

Pirating to try a game is as much as our right as anything, and a sale through pirating is a hard, solid sale.

A sale via preownership is a big fat middle finger to whoever created the content.

Pirating hurts the market, but has the potential to generate sales that otherwise wouldn't happen.

Preownership straight up takes potential sales away, with no leeway. No ifs ands or buts.

If you can prove to me that I don't know, a new law is being stated that allows the creators to profit from preownership, I'll shut up.

There isn't one though, and if there is, the world as we know it will change. A motor company could claim a vehicle sold second hand is the same and chip in a slice from whoever sells it. I doubt it, though.
 
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Yes because everyone wo pirates buys ages. Lol. Rejigger the maths.

Or every thousand pirates you get 1 sale.
You have 1 million layers in the first few weeks equals 1 million sales, you then in the numbering weeks, get 100k players leaving and putting their games up for sale, but there's another 200k who want to play, half can buy second hand, half have to buy new.

Second hand works in every other market, your just talking rubbish and skewing the facts, with rose tinted glasses.

Why buy a game, when you have it for free. That is how the vast majority of pirates think, just because it's good, doesn't mean they'll buy it all.

Right before you buy, does not mean you can pirat, it is not a hard solid sale as few people who pipate, ten go buy the game, why would they.
No benefit to second hand sale. Lts think about it for a second. Let's look at any other market at all, be it computer components, TVs, cars etc. there's groups of people who can't afford or dont want to pay full price and there's thoughts that will buy at full price. Second hand market in all other markets, gives people the money to buy new.
How many cars or TVs do you think there would be, if second hand market was disallowed.

The only thing that skews it is piracy and that severely needs clamping down on.

For goods, we allreaysd have a right to try before you buy and I bet if taken to eu court this would extend to software, this don't give you a right or justifys piracy. Iould have no issue for some sort of tru before you buy right, but we can't have it all consumers way, developers need their rights protecting at the same time.
 
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A game pirated has a chance to generate a sale, regardless of what you say it is true, there is evidence to support that from personal accounts of me and no doubt thousands of people from this forum.

A game preowned is a total loss of a single sale. A game could sell 50 copies new and 10 million copies preowned. It'll only generate 50 copies worth of revenue for whoever created it.

Also, its nice to see your constantly bringing my person into this, slating me as stupid, talking rubbish etc. when you bring absolutely nothing solid to sway the disagreement in your favor. All you can do is claim what I say is wrong, shame.
 
Given that most games these days are just platforms for continual secondary sales, you could well say lowering the barrier for entry is in the publishers interests.

End of the day the cover price of the game has been payed by somebody, and having an active user is in their best interests if you count the above in.

If the first purchaser has or wants to move on to another game, having the game sit idol on the shelf earning nothing in dlc, micro payments ect...

That saying, im old school, the 2nd hand market worked well back in the day... it was only the mass chain stores that screwed it up taking actual trade away with the 'few quid' cheaper carp.

The small shop trade in 2nd hand games back when, realy did help out the kids that couldn't afford new releases.

Remember the first game i got 2nd hand, couldn't belive it seeing yie ar kung fu for 3 quid.. no way could i afford the 8 quid new... god send:)
 
Omaeka said:
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A game preowned is a total loss of a single sale. A game could sell 50 copies new and 10 million copies preowned. It'll only generate 50 copies worth of revenue for whoever created it..
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that's not going to happen and you know it.
You also know full well, you aren't the normal. Piracy does not normally equal sales.
And even when it does it equals less sales.
If you didn't have piracy, you would buy, you would have no option. It's why a lot of these so called "stats" are skewed. Because they assume people who pirate would not buy at all. They would, we used to.

Rather than pirating 20 games for free, you would buy 2 or 3 games.

If use at least semi realistic ball park figures, I wouldn't call it rubbish. But guess what you don't. You know full well 1 piracy does not in any world equal 1 sale. And you know full well 50sales doesn't translate into millions of second hand sales. Your purposely skewing numbers unrealistic lay to try and show your point. Yes you are indeed talking rubbish.
 
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